Where are all the trans men?

[cheeseismydownfall]

I'm feeling so fucking angry with it all today, and the FT / Munroe Bergdorf shit show has really tipped me over the edge (with a final push from the Esty fuckwhittery).

As I was ruminating on MB it occurred to me - where are all the fucking trans men being fawned over and lauded to the skies for their bravery and stunningness? Google 'transgender icons' and the results are overwhelmingly dominated by trans women. Why is this? When women choose this route to try to escape their gender, why are they still fucking being pushed to the back by men?

Raging.

"When women choose this route to try to escape their gender, why are theystillfucking being pushed to the back by men?"

It's almost as if gender is meaningless and women are discriminated against due to their sex. A sex which is perfectly recognisable to misogynists, sexists, rapists, enslavers, human traffickers etc.

And I don’t remember any woman forcing their office to address her as a man even though she changed nothing.

The ones I know are quietly getting on with life without a lot of fuss, as they always did. Somehow, the aftershave you use or your straightforward male manicure or your manly shoes and trousers are not news or intagrammable in the same way the womanly accessories and palaver can be for transwomen. Who knew?

And of course all transmen were socialised as girls and/or women to a greater or lesser extent, so there's less expectation of being fussed over, being the centre of attention and having service-humans on call for you 24/7.

Men are the default human and can do what they like
“Woman” is just some vague blob. Except when women identify as men-at which point it is easy to recognise which sex is inferior

I've heard it said men usually transition to gain attention while women transition to avoid attention. Seems to match the pattern I've seen.

@cheeseismydownfall

I'm feeling so fucking angry with it all today, and the FT / Munroe Bergdorf shit show has really tipped me over the edge (with a final push from the Esty fuckwhittery).

As I was ruminating on MB it occurred to me - where are all the fucking trans men being fawned over and lauded to the skies for their bravery and stunningness? Google 'transgender icons' and the results are overwhelmingly dominated by trans women. Why is this? When women choose this route to try to escape their gender, why are they still fucking being pushed to the back by men?

Raging.

Women are oppressed based on their sex. If they could have avoided it by identifying out of it, they would have.

Transwomen are feted for being the first to do all sorts of things, that they did as men, and transmen are noted for giving birth.

It's remarkable that no one notices. Oh wait, no it isn't.

Patriarchy wouldn't exist without sexism. It has to continue.

It's shit. I hadn't heard about Etsy. Read this and immediately closed my account with them.

@NonnyMouse1337

I've heard it said men usually transition to gain attention while women transition to avoid attention. Seems to match the pattern I've seen.

I reckon you’ve hit the nail on the head there, Mouse

Agree mouse sums it up perfectly

Transmen remain only in the press when they are pregnant it seems. Rather depressing really. But cannot see much changing.

I have semi wondered in the past if its because transmen are more likely to just..get on with it rather than seeking attention. Obviously that doesn't mean transwomen are just attention seekers, but when you think of males and females, men are on the whole much more likely to centre themselves and their needs and such, so I guess it would stand to reason that transmen just kind of fade into the background and want to get on with their lives, while transwomen have to dominate everything they possibly could, including womens awards/sports, etc.

Trasmen being more..aware of others and their feelings and needs seems replicated in the single sex areas arguments. It seems quite rare for a transwoman to even try to see womens POV, where transmen 'get it' due to..having been brought up as female so they automatically consider others rather than just themselves. They are also aware, more than a transwoman would be, of quite how bad males can behave towards females on a regular basis, so see the need behind single sex areas more.

Of course the above is broad strokes and won't apply for all. I don't mean to generalize, and hope if this is reported HQ take that into account..its the only way I could kind of explain how I was thinking.

The above is just a bit of a theory to try and explain it in my head, and sure isn't the whole story, but it makes sense, given socialisation to me anyway..

I've had to hide notifications from a transman on my fb feed because of all the hate they show towards JKR. Despite wanting to just be accepted for who they are. A spiteful, unhappy, troll is who they are now. Unfortunately - used to be such a lovely, calm person but now just bitter and angry. It must be a very difficult thing to live with but I'm pretty sure they will regret transitioning so young. You think it will change your life but, in reality, you are still a person who doesn't feel like you fit in. Must be so disappointing to discover that transitioning doesn't actually make you happy or make your problems go away.

I think the nearest you’ll get to a ‘celebrity’ transman in the U.K is someone like Jake Graf, a film maker and actor who works hard to raise the profile of other trans people in the profession. Many of their photos on their Insta emphasise their masculine features (muscly arms, tattoos, well groomed beard) but that aspect has perhaps been eclipsed by the arrival of Jake’s daughter who was gestated by a woman in Northern Ireland from Jake’s own frozen, fertilised egg (using donor sperm)

Their baby is gorgeous and Jake looks every inch the proud parent. Lots of comments of the ilk ‘proud daddy’, ‘daddy’s little girl’. And there’s lots of male model tropes in their professional photo shoots ie. tuxedo with loosened tie looking like they’re trailing home in the small hours after a night of shagging and gambling, smouldering stares to the camera while their muscly arms protectively encircle a woman lying on their chest, cuff-link fiddling - y’know the type of shots that are the staple of men’s fashion magazines.

Jake has an obvious skill and career that runs alongside their activism. It’s not all about the photo shoots. There’s also the transman in Emmerdale Ash Palmisciano. But I agree, the column inches, when it comes to successful, adult transmen, don’t compare to the focus placed on (and desired by?) transwomen.

There's certainly not a flood of middle aged women suddenly realising they've been men all along, tweeting about the gender euphoria of checked shirts, demanding their children start calling them Dad and that their male partner either accept he is now having sex with another man or cancel himself as an unsupportive bigot.

I have a few checked shirts. I call them my 'cowboy' shirts. I don't experience euphoria in relation to them, but I must say they have very handy pockets on the 'chest' area where you can put a list or your keys.

I'm now going to have a private joke when I were them.

Wasn't me. Wear changed to ware.

Need coffee. Wear changed to were (not ware). Over and out.

Shouldn't we also be asking where are transmen who transition when middle aged ? there seems to be a distinct lack of them compared to their male counterparts.

Cailleach1 I used to work with a man who favoured shirts with two pockets and who didn't use his trouser pockets for some reason - so would fill these two, perfectly postioned breast pockets with his wallet, hanky, keys, phone etc. He was called Pete Utility Tits.

Obviously a woman wouldn't even be able to do that because we don't get pockets.

I imagine many transmen are still experiencing the exact same sexism they always have.

Pete Utility Tits

As others have noted, the sexism so glaringly evident in trans activism and its results is extremely informative. It is only the female biological sex which is being erased and it is only the trans women who are celebrated and even centered in some feminist circles while trans men, indeed, are only famous if they give birth. They are not picked among the leaders of men while trans women such as MB certainly are viewed as leaders among women.

And the people who are expected to be kind and inclusive are only one particular kind in these debates.

From a purely intellectual point of view this is all extremely interesting, because it shows the unconscious privileging of male opinions and male trans activists by far too many women who call themselves feminists and it also shows the tools which are used to turn bog-standard women compliant with their own erasure.

But of course in overall terms what is happening is truly horrendous. Our ability to address sex-based oppression is erased and should we point that out we are bigots.

Were this trend to continue, the only way for someone born female to seek fair treatment would actually be to identify as a trans man, but that would require extremely troubling medical intervention. Or so I think when I try to understand what the category 'women' would consist of in the gender identity school. Once biological sex is not allowed to be mentioned at all or used as the basis for someone's gender identity, 'women' would probably be those who prefer retrogressive female sex roles, who are content to be viewed feminine under various sexist definitions, or who are into appearance and being viewed as a sexual object etc.

The transman I know is doing exactly what he did before he transitioned - training to be a nurse. So lovely to see more men entering this kind of female dominated work. You'll be shocked to learn that pre transition he had very late diagnosed ASD and suffered so badly from lesbophobic bullying that he had to change schools. He made a few videos during his transition, one was really heartbreaking, he said something along the lines of "I wasn't girl enough then but I'll never be man enough now". I hope he's happy and that he lives a life of peace and fulfilment, I really think he'll be a great nurse.

Quietly living their lives without entitlement. The were socialized as women after all.

And I don’t remember any woman forcing their office to address her as a man even though she changed nothing.
Maybe I should start a trend? I don't think anyone would blink (which gives me the rage a bit: am clearly already "one of the guys", whether I want it or not!)
Seriously, though, I'd never do that, because I'm not a narcissist. I don't want to draw attention to my gender non-conformity. Just like I don't want to draw attention to my sex. I'm personally fully comfortable with both. But attention is threatening.
Whereas the big trans celebrities clearly feel no such fear. Some may say "male socialisation", but I'd say "narcissism". The reason they can socially get away with it, is probably because they're male, though. Male narcissists just seem to get away with everything (glance at current US and UK leaders...)

Were this trend to continue, the only way for someone born female to seek fair treatment would actually be to identify as a trans man, but that would require extremely troubling medical intervention.

Why would that be necessary? What is good for the goose is also good for the gander. Most men who transform (is that the verb) into women don't do a blessed thing to their bodies.

You just need to pronounce yourself a man. And have a meltdown if someone says you aren't.