Political lesbianism /*choosing* to be a lesbian

[SoulofanAggron]

Have any of you ever decided to become a lesbian for political reasons? How successful were you?

[NRatched]

Its not something I have thought too much about in all honesty. However, someone just 'chosing' to become a lesbian, I would say would have surely been at least bi first? A friend of mine swore off men after too many negative experiences, and now is married to a woman, and puts it across as 'she chose to be a lesbian instead' but she has always been bi and in my mind a lesbian is not something one simply choses to be. In her situation, she chose to be in a lesbian relationship, but she didn't chose to be a lesbian.

[Antibles]

@Beamur

I think you have to consider this in the context of when it was coined, it was a political act of rejecting heterosexuality.
In present day terms we're seeing such widespread appropriation of terms around womanhood that this now seems a bit suss. I daresay the women who chose this path knew they were not the same as their lesbian friends, maybe some were actually bisexual or maybe some of these relationships were not physical.
I very much doubt it would be used as a phrase now, but it reads to me as a gesture of solidarity not denial or land grab. How you would describe this would be dependent on the words in use and understood meaning at the time.

Yes this is how I would read it. Solidarity not appropriation, although the term jars today because we are rightly suspicious of land grabs of terms and their misuse to our detriment.

In spirit I agree very much with what political lesbianism meant at the time but as a heterosexual it's simply not possible for me to be lesbian. It's a shame because it's our physical attraction to men that is the most massive Achilles heel when it comes to our liberation as a sex.

[FWRLurker]

Compared to men, There are apparently more women who are bi (Kinsey 1-5) than who are lesbian (Kinsey 6). A lot of Kinsey 1-5s do choose to live as lesbians aka only have female relationships despite that they can also Be attracted to men.

So a lot of bi women Identify as lesbians because for practical purposes, they live as lesbians.

[StrawberrySquash]

If you go with a Kinsey scale logic I can easily see that there will be a chunk of women who could be more attracted to men but choose to focus on women. Yes, it's about being attracted to the individual but group characteristics have an effect too. So I can see those women 'choosing' to be lesbians. Obviously that is very different from saying it is in any way okay to try conversion therapy on someone. At the end of the day you have to respect, not compel individual's sexuality. (Consent mattering on all sides).
Also what is a romantic relationship? Plenty of straight marriages are devoid of sex, some happily so.
I think it's very interesting how the way we talk about human sexuality, which in an underlying way doesn't really change, differently over time.

[SeaDreaming]

I identified as bi, but actually don't ever want to sleep with, be physically or emotionally intimate with, live with or have a relationship with a man ever again.
Wrt to women, I love living alone, and am happily single at the moment.

[NonnyMouse1337]

NonnyMouse1337 Transwomen/AGPs don't tend to claim they're choosing to be lesbians, they use a 'born this way' narrative.

True, good point. 🤔

[testing987654321]

A key part of being a lesbian is being a woman. If you are male and are attracted to women that's being heterosexual.

[ErrolTheDragon]

@NonnyMouse1337

NonnyMouse1337 Transwomen/AGPs don't tend to claim they're choosing to be lesbians, they use a 'born this way' narrative.

True, good point. 🤔

I'm not in the least convinced that any heterosexual male is born with a specific attraction to women who are exclusively attracted to females.
And, whatever, they can never be lesbians. Let them think up another term a heterosexual 'homogenderal', and find a woman who is ok with that if they want.

[ErrolTheDragon]

How a common starting point can be found, as pp may have said, is difficult.

Do women need one?

Sorry... I realise I'm contributing to this thread discussing men, when it is surely a topic in which only their irrelevance is relevant.

[stumbledin]

I think without placing this within the context of separatism you get side tracked into thinking it is about chosing one's sexuality.

Many women led a separatists life, without necessarily going as far as setting up a separatists commune.

However choosing to have as little to do with men as possible because so much time and emotional and sexual energy went into propping them up, was the political choice.

Whether from that you then chose to be or have lesbian relationships or become (politically) celibate was part of that politics.

In fact at one time there was a move that all women should wear a badge saying "lesbian" to make a statement to men that as a woman you weren't sexually available to them.

Women's Liberation politics wasn't about "choice" feminism, it was about a lived experience.

And in fact when you look at the number of women who come out as lesbian later in live, its hard not to think that most women identify as heterosexual because that is the default social pressure. Not only to be sexually available to men, but to become pregnant! ie if heterosexuality is compulsory then to chose not to do that is a political act against the class of men.

[Gncq]

I'm not in the least convinced that any heterosexual male is born with a specific attraction to women who are exclusively attracted to females

On AGP... The desire to be seen as female is directly connected to their sexuality, so the women who they are attracted to have to be attracted to females, or it won't work.
Whether a man is born with AGP I very much doubt. Porn has a lot to answer for.

But sorry, huge tangent on a very interesting thread.

[FloralBunting]

It's just the wrong name. There's nothing wrong with separatism. It's not my choice, but I understand it.

Calling it political lesbianism in the current context is counter-productive, imo.

I'm not a fan of the born-this-way-narrative, as someone who has been subjected to conversion therapy, it's always felt like an excuse - 'I can't help being a lesbian' - well, ok, but I have chosen to embrace my lesbian orientation after a long time fighting it, and I want to underline that it's a positive thing, not a passive or negative thing that I only embrace because I have to.

That's not the same as political lesbianism or a bisexual woman deciding to stick with women, but this is a grey area because I did call myself bisexual for a time and that was rooted in the same kind of internalized homophobia that led me to all night exorcism sessions to cure me.

[testing987654321]

If you believe TWAW, it doesn't stand.

No, it doesn't. And it's pretty insulting to suggest that lesbians, whose sexuality is based on both partners being women, should be considering men.

[stumbledin]

Just to say that my post was made thinking there was only one page of comments, so is in response to comments on that page.

Also it is interesting how those who control the narrative can change what is seen as the history of feminism.

Revolutionary Feminists were seen very much as the new girls on the block, just trying a bit too hard to somehow be different. Most of what they said was already the common understanding of Radical Feminism (not to be conflated with current RadFem). But ... Radical Feminisn being based on the shared experience of women did mean that some Radical Feminists were heterosexual, living and working with men. So some Radical Feminists groups chose to become Radical Feminists Lesbian Separatist.

The big difference between Radical Feminism and Revolutionary Feminism, is that the first is based on being pro woman, the second is based on being anti men.

I think some of that difference in core understanding can be seen in the way some women challenge the trans narrative.

[SapphosRock]

I've wondered if lockdown could have tempted any women into political lesbianism. Spending 24/7 with a male partner could be very tedious.

I'd like to say my lesbianism is political but it's not, I just fancy women.

[EarthSight]

@Cabinfever10

Nobody chooses to be a lesbian

Apparently some do. Just listen to Julie Bindel and Sheila Jeffreys talk about their lesbianism. Seems odd to me. If you're not sexually or romantically attracted to women......surely you're not a lesbian then? They might be in a relationship with women, but to me that's not the same as being a lesbian.

[SapphosRock]

The point about political lesbianism is you don't have to have sex with women. You just reject relationships with men and perhaps have a close companionship type relationship with another woman.

If I was straight I think I'd be tempted!

[FloralBunting]

I a lesbian and I'm tempted. Wonder if I'm a bit too long in the tooth for the effort of sex but a companion for cuddles would be lovely.

[Snowdrop30]

I'm bi and if my DH were no longer here, I think I would prefer to date women rather than men. The sexism always comes up at some point - I can't really be arsed any more. Is that a political statement? Possibly.

[NRatched]

Our definition of a political lesbian is a woman-identified woman who does not fuck men.

See, this is not being a lesbian to me at all?! This is just..not having sex with men. I guess the word lesbian is not mine to gatekeep being bi myself rather than gay, but if I was lesbian that would annoy me a lot I think. Its annoying when I am NOT a lesbian!

[twitteriserasingus]

I have had relationships with men and women. In my 30s, during a long term relationship I identified as lesbian. It was important to her and I went with the flow. I guess that is choosing to some extent? I identify as bi now.