Titles

[Nicknamegoeshere]

This may possibly have been done to death so forgive me if I'm late to the party, but why on earth do so many people struggle with my preferred title being Miss ***?!! Sick of rules of assumption surrounding Miss/Ms/Mrs!!!

@ChazsBrilliantAttitude

I think female High Court Judges are known as Mrs Justice Surname but assume that is because Miss Justice would be a bit unfortunate.

oh yes, i'd never thought of that. what a brilliant observation !

i cannot quote the person who said miss for actresses was not to recognise their professional status, for some reason the quote box does not appear above that post .
anyway, though it may have been used also for that, i do not agree that was the reason. it was well established that a professional or career woman was styled, Miss full name, as are surgeons, singers, dancers, teachers, writers.

why should anyone know any more about me than i choose to share.

Exactly - and if they need to know my sex, like the doctor, they could have a separate field to record that in. Same for if they need to know my marital status, though other than probably HMRC, I don't see why most people need to, however much they might want to.

It is indeed crazy that in the UK official documents all require a title!
I'm a (divorced) teacher and known as Miss . When I marry again I will still be known as Miss .
In a school of about 40 plus teachers, all of the married female staff members are known as Mrs so I will definitely be the exception to the rule.
True story...
I'm currently on mat leave as I have a four month-old baby girl. When I told the kids in my primary class I was having a baby, one of the boys went round telling everyone they had to now call me Mrs as I couldn't be a Miss and pregnant!

Surely some of them must be aware you can have a baby out of wedlock these days, and not have to hide your shame?

@sultanasofa

A lot of surgeons use 'Miss MaidenName' regardless of marital status. It's quite badass. Their title reflects their professional status, not the presence of a husband now or in the past.

The continued UK convention of losing the title 'Dr.' once becoming a surgeon is one of the most seemingly ridiculous things I have discovered about the culture.

I mean you (like us) have some real jackasses with PhDs that use the title 'Dr,' but your actual highly educated medical professionals still choose to lose their well-earned title when elevating to surgeon? And Miss is somehow better than Dr.? Completely nonsensical IMO outside of your culture (and a few others colonized by the UK) I mean we are a little past barber surgeons at this point. Surgeons require so much more education than just a PhD or a GP - as an American I find it to be quite the insult to someone that has dedicated so much time, money, and effort to their career.

It is like reverse identity ideology or something... almost like willful obfuscation.

Cultural difference I get it but I still think your title rules and pervasiveness of titles in general is jacked. So many things about the UK are fascinating and/or very enjoyable for me but this is one thing that I can't wrap my head around.

but's that just it, it's a way of showing off, or at least it's a pride in one's profession of being a qualified surgeon.
they all have to start as a medically qualified doctor, and then some go on to qualify as surgeons.
i know it is a historic anomaly, as other specialities do not proceed like this, but that's a big thing about britain, it clings on to some very odd seeming traditions, like wigs on barristers and judges in court.
we kind of like these things generally, as they link us to our past, and are seen as harmless.
but, guess what, since i last posted re titles on official forms,
i received a renewal form from tv licensing.
i had to fill it in, on pain of criminal proceedings and imprisonment.
i scrolled down in the title field, and lo and behold, the last one was, 'none'.
i selected that and the title field remained blank and it moved on to the next question. yipeee.
they must have been reading us on MN.

I expect people think they are hearing it wrong or it's a typo. If you choose to use a word contrary to it's meaning, people will often assume it's an error and will follow the conventional meaning.

@Goosefoot Which word is being used contrary to its meaning?

Inretesting about titles being used interchangeably, e.g. Miss Cherie Booth and Mrs Cherie Blair, I hadn't really registered that.

I will just stick with Miss *** (family name) when I marry, won't be taking my husband's last name.

(And no, as an aside, my father will most definitely not be walking me down the aisle! Not that we're having an aisle, we're having a circle! I digress ha ha!)

The oxford dictionary definition is
'A title prefixed to the name of an unmarried woman or girl, or to that of a married woman retaining her maiden name for professional purposes.'

But now it's increasingly common for women to not change their name for social as well as professional purposes on marriage. It would be silly to say the OP could still be Miss Nickname at work but had to be Ms Nickname elsewhere, wouldn't it?

[quote Nicknamegoeshere]@Goosefoot Which word is being used contrary to its meaning?[/quote]
Miss in English, except in certain specific circumstances, is used to refer to an unmarried woman, Mrs a married one, and Ms doesn't imply anything about the marital status of the person in question.

People assume they are hearing wrong - Miss and Ms are especially difficult to distinguish - or it's a typo, because you are using it in a way that is unusual, not because they are thick.

i don't think it's that unusual, or difficult to get one's head round.

@Goosefoot I'm delighted to be a part of challenging that traditional meaning then as ultimately I believe my marital status is nobody's business! Still, if we are going by your traditional meaning as quoted then I am currently using "Miss" correctly as I am unmarried.

However, I am a person in my own right; both now as unmarried woman and also when I become a married one. For me, taking my husband's name, losing my family name and/or changing my title suggests otherwise.

I've never heard that "technically" Ms is the title to indicate divorce. OP your older relatives are just wrong.

Ms is the equivalent of Mr - an indication of being an adult woman, without also indicating marital status.

A bit like "Mrs" in the 18th century & before, when Mrs (short for "Mistress") again meant "adult woman" as opposed to "Miss." I think the 'adult' bit of it got equated with being married - or rather, marriage signified reaching adult status for women.

@MissMarplesGlove It's not just my older relatives that think that; asking around it sadly seems not to be an uncommon assumption that Ms = divorcee.

However, my older relatives are "old school" - my mother is astounded that I will not be changing to Mrs *** upon marriage and believes it to be "disrespectful" to my fiancé. Luckily my fiancé does not share this view!

He has said that my title is entirely up to me but he does know I wouldn't be comfortable with Mrs and understands/respects why.

In terms of changing my last name he says if it was up to him alone he'd like him and I to both double-barrel eg. I take his last name and he takes mine, so we are the same as our daughter. Not sure about this yet but I'm not particularly against it either?