The left wing: Why are so many feminists still bothering with them?

[RowlingsArmy]

I have been following these boards, and in particular the GC issue for a while now.

I live in a working-class Labour stronghold, but I consider myself to be politically homeless as no left wing parties support women, and I disagree with most of the policies of the right.

One thing I've noticed is that a lot of gender critical people are still holding onto Labour/ Lib Dems/ The Greens. I am really confused as to why this is?

These parties have made it crystal clear that they don't want us. All of these parties have expelled women that have expressed gender critical/ pro-women viewpoints.

Why would you stay somewhere where you're not welcome?

I cant speak for them but I guess they stay in the hope their party can eventually be reclaimed. It is as much their party as it is anyone elses.
Many of those women have been involved in activism and politics since the Thatcher years. They are 'the left wing' as much as any political party.
The current ideology is not left wing, and it is not Socialist. It is neoliberal, patriarchal and against class analysis.

It's because they fight for other important issues that align with my opinions.
Also, I don't allow my politics to be dictated to by inexperienced children.

I used to work in a university. These political groups are almost all the same. They have the loudest, most opinionated voices and they are, by and large, obnoxious. Look up the Young Conservatives, who actually had to be disbanded in the end because they went way over the line of decency.
They gave us a lot of trouble with their behaviour in their day.

There are plenty of GC people in ALL the parties. I refuse to abandon them to the TRAs.

You said it yourself in your OP: I disagree with most of the policies of the right. On this one issue, I disagree with Labour, the Lib Dems and the Greens.

I may be politically homeless, that doesn't mean I'm either abandoning the parties I previously have voted for, or become a Tory. When the next election finally arrives I'll weigh up every party's policies and see who, on balance, I could stomach voting for because there will be something that will stick in my craw no matter who I vote for. Or it might be so bad I might have to spoil my ballot, I can't rule that out either.

You're right. It's a very low bar to acknowledge that women exist and if these excuses for political parties can't even do that - more, victim-blame and cheer on perpetrators of abuse as happened on Sky News today - then the sooner they're sent to the electoral oblivion they deserve the better. It's no use saying there are other policies because what's the point of them if 51% will be excluded? They're done, get rid, start again.

Why do you have to go right wing if the left wing decide to lose their brains on this issue?

Being ultra ring wing could mean letting the market decide and that means letting big pharma run riot without medical ethics to protect vulnerable adults and children for example.

Thats not exactly helpful either.

The problem here is ultimately that the left wing and liberals have forgotten the principles that under pinned the origins of their movements and lost sight of their entire purpose.

Its not for us to spell this out. Indeed we can't. Its only when people remove their own heads from their backside and open their eyes to the fact that 'being nice' doesn't work because there are people out there who aren't nice and will always seek to exploit people who are naive about this.

The people who are hurt always the least powerful and the ones that left wing and liberals originally set out to protect.

All this comes from people who dont want to see the suffering or harm out there - and that makes them very much enablers of anti left wing and liberal views.

Abandoning parties is fundamentally not the same as abandoning political views either.

Its the left wing and liberals that left those views not women who want to seek out right wing views that they dont feel ultimately benefit them.

Because the Right is no place for me and I align with almost all of the Lefts values apart from their take on the trans debate.
Simple.
I'm on a few GC groups on FB and I've had to leave one because it is so right wing and anti BLM with lots of the comments being thinly veiled racism. Feminists are not a herd mentality and there is room for everyone (female) whether we like it or not.

Id argue that parts of the left wing and liberals are being run by right wingers who just dont like the label of being right wing...

I'm not convinced this is a left/right issue at all.

Yes Genderists (and post-modern oddballs in general) are more associated with the left at the moment but really it's about a mode of thought which has infected almost every political structure in the UK to some extent.

The party most controlled by them is the centerist Lib-Dems (who should have been the most immune, being founded on Liberalism). The Tory LGBT groupings are completely in hoc to them to the extent that the legal codification of Butlerism was put forward by a Tory government.

Arguably their greatest success has been the extent to which they've managed to influence the politically neutral public services.

"I'm not convinced this is a left/right issue at all."

It isn't. It merely suits some people to frame it as such.

Do we honestly think that the likes of Boris Johnson and Donald Trump care diddly squat about gender recognition? Of course they don't!
They could stop this so easily.
They choose not to.

I increasingly feel that the labels left and right wing are meaningless and a slightly lazy way to group people together. I have some opinions which would be labelled right wing, others left wing and some which would make me a centrist. Putting labels on people isn't really useful.

However I won't be voting for any party which doesn't know what a woman is.

Id argue that parts of the left wing and liberals are being run by right wingers who just dont like the label of being right wing...

Agreed! A lot of feminists here are left wing. A very vocal section of the Labour Party is not truly left wing, because it has forgotten the class analysis which the movement was built upon. Identity politics, with its individualism and consumerism, is not inherently left wing and lends itself better to the pro-capitalism right.

The privileged little idiots in some of the university Labour societies I've been hearing about recently? They're hardly any better than the Bullingdon Club. Left wing misogynists speak for us, right wing misogynists ignore us. Both are shit for women.

Misogyny can be found in all political parties. I'm not giving up climate change activities just because the left, like the right, doesn't center women.

I'm still a Labour member although it's not been easy. The main reason I'm still there is because it's not just their party.
If a bunch of spoiled teenagers start trashing your house, you don't deal with it by moving out your house and becoming homeless. You have to be the adults and deal with the teenagers.
There are still sensible people within at least some of the party and we want to take our party back.

Identity politIcs is far from being left-wing or even liberal. It is the opposite of socialism, which is about the good of the people. It undermines community and weakens class-based action.

The gender identity movement in particular is ultra-individualistic, which would put it firmly on the right wing — certainly farther right than traditional conservatism.

Rather sadly, young people choosing one of 58 genders to fit in with their new friends are more likely to find they’ve isolated themselves from the other 57.

Puts me mind of sad conservative wives stood at their gate with their husbands for a photo after he's been caught shagging again.

( that was conservative MPs wives)

There has never been a political party formed for the good of the underprivileged - a complete myth. The Labour Party was formed by intellectuals as a labour movement (not an anti-poverty movement). Liberal was not liberal as we understand it now and was not for the purpose of lifting other classes. I realise parties develop and change but their beginnings should still be at the core

Even now, the MC has thoroughly inserted itself into the Labour Party and even more so with the 'culture wars' and the TU's are supporting this because they believe some kind of social revolution could take place with a new social order where everything is unionised.

I am left but GC which I consider has no political party. I just hope some castle walls will have come tumbling down before the next election, otherwise it's another spoilt ballot

I imagine an awful lot of women like me are politically homeless

I have been genuinely taken aback as a life long Labour voter at just how quickly & happily they’ve thrown women under the bus & how lacking in intellectual robustness they are when they try to defend said throwing

That they can genuinely stand there & insist someone born male is miraculously a woman because feelings/presentation/(and on occasion) surgery & that not only that they are literally the most oppressed women ever....well put it this way I wouldn’t trust someone who thinks that with scissors let alone a country

I am angry with the party and papers I've adhered to before because they have chosen to throw women under the bus. I'm not blind to the fact that the right wing is eagerly attempting to capitalise on this, despite every sign that they are genuinely the "gender essentialists" that GC feminists are accused of being.

Sod the lot of them. I'm not playing their game, and if they want my vote/paper purchase/campaigning ability, they need to show some ACTUAL respect to women and girls.

For me, it goes deeper than GC. I'm looking at the left spearheading a very authoritarian, anti-free speech, anti-science movement that seeks to redefine language in order to control 'the masses'. Whether or not these are naturally left wing positions is arguable, but then again let's look at the Mao's cultural revolution or any of the attempts at communism that all ended in horrendous slaughter and suffering - the left has rarely been on the side of peace and justice.

So I certainly no longer see myself as part of the left, for many reasons. I am very keen on my own personal freedoms and I also believe in material reality and science. Also that, despite many problems, we (I'm in the UK) live in relative luxury and equality. I'm interested in conserving that.

In terms of voting in an election, I've told Lynne Truss I'll vote tory if they maintain and strengthen protections for women and girls. I've never voted tory before but I'm certainly not voting for any of the others unless they have a sudden and complete reversal in policy and tactics.

Answering the OP's question, my own MP is a fantastic woman, really listens, and is GC. I think she is getting together with other GC MPs and trying to think of a way of breaking through all the trans ideology.

Shedbuilder that gives me lots of hope because regardless of party, there are some really good women in parliament and there are also lots of GC men. There are also lots of idiots

I guess it's because it was a big part of my life for so long. But now they have senior figures saying I support a hate group and who would want me thrown out if I were still a member. And their leader stands by and says nothing (at least not in public). Plus, like queen says, it's made me aware of their authoritarian tendencies which were always there. I can't see any way back. That makes me sad and it's conceivable that they will get my vote again at some point but as for my allegiance - I think that's gone forever.

I’ve long refused to nail my colours to any particular political mast. Some might say that makes me a fence-sitter with an arse full of splinters, but so be it. Tbh I’ve reached the point now where both sides are so toxic that the splinters were probably the right way to go all along, though it leaves me with no idea who to vote for. ☹️

@lakeswimmer

I increasingly feel that the labels left and right wing are meaningless and a slightly lazy way to group people together. I have some opinions which would be labelled right wing, others left wing and some which would make me a centrist. Putting labels on people isn't really useful.

However I won't be voting for any party which doesn't know what a woman is.

Lakeswimmer I am really interested in what you've just said.

Please could you give a couple of your "left wing" opinions and a couple of your "right wing" opinions so that I can get a better understanding of what you mean?

(Apols if anyone thinks this is a bit de-railly.)