GenderGP - something afoot?

[umbel]

Looks like something is about to drop.

FWR: "We don't hate trans people"

(1000s of trans people lose access to their meds overnight thanks to concerted, well-resourced campaigningthat won't stop with Clear Chemist. Trans people will now either swamp the already overloaded GICs, or go underground for their meds and use youtube as a doctor)

FWR: victory dance

NC for this.
But I'm a GP working in the UK.
We have had a request for meds for a patient for GenderGP.
It was a long letter, with a request for a script. The request went round the surgery multiple times and no one knew what to do whether to prescribe or not. In the end it was only on the advice of the pharmacist the surgery declined.
They despite a previous decline they keep requesting if the GP is not aware we have already declined they may accidentally issue.
Unfortunately most GP's are not aware of the ins and outs or the delicate situation regarding the trans issue. Most haven't heard of GenderGP and GenderGP present themself as a professional agency with medical professionals who have advised about the prescription. There is no knowledge of its background and so some GP's would prescribe because we frequently do on advice of other doctors for the NHS.
Even now at my surgery they are thinking about writing a long letter to Gender GP about why we refused and giving reasons, when in reality it should have been a blunt No, that we are not indemnified to do this. If we are not trained we shouldn't so it, but GenderGP present themselves as though the request has come from a medical Consultant and so we are less likely to refuse.
It is only by coming on this website I know the GP's have been struck off and are working from Spain.

@MadBadDaddy

FWR: "We don't hate trans people"

(1000s of trans people lose access to their meds overnight thanks to concerted, well-resourced campaigningthat won't stop with Clear Chemist. Trans people will now either swamp the already overloaded GICs, or go underground for their meds and use youtube as a doctor)

FWR: victory dance

Maybe because its seen in the context of being a scandal like the opiod crisis rather than 'hating' anyone.

Maybe we have skin in the game and want our loved ones not to be harmed by ideology setting the agenda rather than evidence based medicine.

But yeah crack on with the slur.

I mean we are talking about a gp WHO WAS STRUCK OFF FOR MISCONDUCT in case anyone is in any doubt about the credibility and ethics here.

It does piss me off this framing of a STRUCK OFF doctor as a hero rather than little more than a prescription drug dealer.

Lets spell it out plainly here.

@Mytho

NC for this. But I'm a GP working in the UK. We have had a request for meds for a patient for GenderGP. It was a long letter, with a request for a script. The request went round the surgery multiple times and no one knew what to do whether to prescribe or not. In the end it was only on the advice of the pharmacist the surgery declined. They despite a previous decline they keep requesting if the GP is not aware we have already declined they may accidentally issue. Unfortunately most GP's are not aware of the ins and outs or the delicate situation regarding the trans issue. Most haven't heard of GenderGP and GenderGP present themself as a professional agency with medical professionals who have advised about the prescription. There is no knowledge of its background and so some GP's would prescribe because we frequently do on advice of other doctors for the NHS. Even now at my surgery they are thinking about writing a long letter to Gender GP about why we refused and giving reasons, when in reality it should have been a blunt No, that we are not indemnified to do this. If we are not trained we shouldn't so it, but GenderGP present themselves as though the request has come from a medical Consultant and so we are less likely to refuse. It is only by coming on this website I know the GP's have been struck off and are working from Spain.

The GP in question (Dr. Webberley) hasn't been struck off, but suspended pending an enquiry.

Dr. Webberley is also not prescribing anything on behalf of anyone. The doctors prescribing for GenderGP are all qualified to do so.

Perhaps you shouldn't rely on this website for information on trans-related issues. It's like asking UKIP to bring you up to speed on immigration.

That fact is, the pharmacy regulator and the insurers intervened, which is why this practice has stopped.

Webberley was found guilty of running an illegal clinic and is suspended by the GMC.

I cant give details of the patient due to patient confidentiality but due to their record this is the last patient that should be prescribed hormonal treatment.
The letter we received just stated that they have multiple professionals working for them including medical.
The letter presented itself as though it had been done by a Medical Consultant that has requested the prescription but there was no named Consultant and just a random name with no indication of their role.
There was no information about any counselling or anything that had gone into making this decision for hormonal treatment.
Suddenly out of the blue a professional looking letter lands on our lap with a request for hormonal treatment. There is no indication the patient hasnt been seen face to face and was only assessed online. There is no information about what assessment has taken place just a generic blurb that they are staffed by professionals of many different talents. By asking me to prescribe they are asking me to take responsibility for any adverse effects that may occur.
I have had no training in prescribing hormonal treatment for transition. The medication is unlicensed. Due to not practicing out of my competence I am not able to prescribe, the issue is as simple as that. It's one of the first things you learn in Medical School.
Practice within your competence.
Unfortunately they don't take no for an answer and keep sending letters requesting the medication.

There is an article in this tweet that gives the regulators position, seems sensible to me.

.twitter.com/ICPmagazine/status/1313884716689494016

The regulator, however, urged pharmacies to “manage the extra risks” that may arise when working with a prescriber based outside the UK and ensure “the prescriber is working within national prescribing guidelines for the UK.”

“People are at risk of serious harm if they receivemedicinesor treatmentthat arenot clinically appropriate forthem,” said GPhC chief executive Duncan Rudkin.

“(The) investigation by the BBC andThe Timesraises serious concerns. Wearelooking into the issues raised as a matter of urgency and will take any actions necessary to safeguard patients and the public. Pharmacy owners and pharmacy professionals have a responsibility to safeguard children and vulnerable people.

“We expect pharmacy owners to make sure they do not work with online providers who are trying to circumvent the regulatory oversight put in place within the UK to ensure patient safety throughout the healthcare system.

‎“Pharmacy owners should also make sure that theonline prescribing service, or a prescriber, thattheychoose to work with is aware that some categories of medicines are not suitable to be supplied online unless further safeguards have been put in place to make sure that they are clinically appropriate.

“This includes medicines that require ongoing monitoring and management.”

@Thelnebriati

But even if they are located outside of the UK, they can't legally practice in the UK. They can't make a diagnosis or issue prescriptions. I'm not sure they can even refer you elsewhere.

I'm just answering the question on how they are prescribing. They are presenting themselves as professional and the request looks like it has come from a Medical Consultant in a Gender Clinic. On the first look I thought it was an NHS gender Clinic that had requested the medication. So some GP's may do it in the belief they are doing a request by a NHS Medical Consultant.

The GP in question (Dr. Webberley) hasn't been struck off, but suspended pending an enquiry.

I stand corrected that they were operating outside the law and after they had previously been told to desit. They were shut down by judge who ruled that they were breaking the Care Standards Act.

So they went abroad to do exactly the same.

Because thats ok.

By asking me to prescribe they are asking me to take responsibility for any adverse effects that may occur.

Yes, this is something I found out quite recently. Pain clinic wanted meds switched and wrote to my GP, GP refused to do so because she disagreed with what they were saying. I always assumed with specialists, they ask for the meds, the GP writes them up but if anything were to 'go wrong' it couldn't come back on the GP as they were just following the advice of someone who specialized in the illness at hand. I figured it was kind of like getting it FROM the pain clinic guy, just it was a pain in the arse to be travelling backwards and forwards for an hour each week for prescriptions, so the GP doing it just saved a lot of time and for convenience for all involved.

She said she often has issues when specialists prescribe stuff shes unfamiliar with as theres an expectation for GPs to just follow, however it would be the GP at risk, so she doesn't like to do it unless certain herself. I get where shes coming from, however, I don't understand referring someone for specialist help, then overruling the specialist? If that makes sense. It seems the way the 'rules' are set up thats making this happen.

But yeah, only discovered this recently.

the trouble with this clinic is that, while it might be what the patients want but not necessarily being done in a safe way that tries to avoid harm.

There is no real evidence that having cross sex hormones prescribed is actually saving lives, but there is mounting evidence that the same is causing actual harm - possibly even death in some cases.

Their patient assessments and monitoring sound completely inadequate and as a pp pointed out, are putting others unwittingly in a position where they could be prosecuted if something goes wrong.

These doctors and their employees are operating outside the regulations designed to keep people safe. This is not ok.

It's a relief to see a regulatory agency taking swift action to protect children and vulnerable adults. It doesn't seem to happen much these days, especially in relation to vulnerable children.

Absolutely nobody on twitter responding to the GPhC statement is questioning why GenderGP chose not to set up their business in the UK to begin with.

@mytho

GenderGP might not even be the ones pestering you. They will provide an introductory letter to their patients to forward on to their GPs. I know this b/c I've used their services.

Rather than slum it here on a website notorious in the trans community for it's vociferous opposition to and suspicion of almost any degree of trans acceptance and where many would refuse to acknowledge that 'trans' even exists outside of sexual fetishes, perhaps you could, y'know, visit GenderGPs website and see what they have to say for themselves? I'm not trying to persuade you to step outside of your "areas of competence" but a website like this is so blatently biased you really shouldn't rely on it as your only source of info.

Absolutely nobody on twitter responding to the GPhC statement is questioning why GenderGP chose not to set up their business in the UK to begin with

Everyones always angry at the wrong people aren't they. If it was all legit, safe, tested, approved and within the guidelines set then they wouldn't have to "cut them off".

Daddy, now you are just talking absolute nonsense.

I get your angry, but you are aiming your anger at the wrong people.

Gender GP sold you a lie, there are significant concerns about the way Gender Gp operates, if those concerns were unfounded why did they decide to move to spain

And I have looked at gender gps website.

Counselling optional, follow ups optional, blood testing which is easily gamed, patients never met face to face.

It didn't fill me with any confidence.

GenderGP retweeted this suggesting they have 3,000 active patients in the UK. 3k x £460 (monthly fees and 2 X 6 monthly check ups a year. Well, I made it £1.38 million a year without all the add -ons.

visit GenderGPs website and see what they have to say for themselves?

I'd rather trust the judgment of the GMC and regulator tbh, I mean she's not exactly an unbiased source of information.

But from that screenshot I can see "no #gatekeeping, only gender-affirming healthcare..." .

@MindTheMinotaur

GenderGP retweeted this suggesting they have 3,000 active patients in the UK. 3k x £460 (monthly fees and 2 X 6 monthly check ups a year. Well, I made it £1.38 million a year without all the add -ons.

oh my lord - even on that tweet she is saying that there is no 'gatekeeping'!! So, effectively enabling self diagnosis into unregulated hormone treatment regardless of age, pre-existing health conditions etc (do they check that a person has no medical history that totally precludes this sort of medication?).

Insurance was mentioned upthread - I wonder how GenderGP's liability insurance works across countries with different rules?

Oh, I would read GenderGPs website. Interesting stuff about how a 9 year old meets GenderGP on a Mermaids residential and gets to circumvent all that nasty gate keeping stuff.

The General Pharmaceutical council clearly has concerns: www.pharmacyregulation.org/news/concerns-relating-clearchemist

“ We are looking into concerns raised about Clear Chemist as a matter of urgency and will take any actions necessary to safeguard patients and the public.

“We carried out a targeted visit of the pharmacy earlier this week and looked in detail at whether the pharmacy was meeting the required standards, including in relation to managing risks relating to the services it is providing and in safeguarding vulnerable patients. We are now considering what further regulatory action to take.

“In the meantime, the superintendent pharmacist of Clear Chemist has advised us that he has taken the decision to only dispense prescriptions to patients over 18 years old where the patient has given consent to speak with their GP about their prescribed treatment.

“We are working with the pharmacy on key issues including signposting to other services and continuity of care for their patients.”

@MindTheMinotaur

GenderGP retweeted this suggesting they have 3,000 active patients in the UK. 3k x £460 (monthly fees and 2 X 6 monthly check ups a year. Well, I made it £1.38 million a year without all the add -ons.

It is a good business plan, getting people to sign up for a monthly fee by DD. Keeps the cashflow flowing.