Australian sport transgender inclusion

[Kit19]

You’ll be unsurprised you know that the inclusion of trans athletes comes above all else 🙄

No apology needed, Sunset - sadly it's true. Just as women's AFL was off the ground, too.

Women's sport is clearly viewed as 'terra nullius' by the menz, just as the whole continent was in the C18th and C19th.

Colonisation vigorously practised until the original inhabitants retire to the fringes. 🤷🏼‍♀️

Even in sports where women are successful, elite sports women repeatedly report kit that isn’t adapted for women, lack of training facilities, lack of coaching, poor or no pay, etc

I'm sure I remember a newspaper article about a runner who was disqualified fir running in a head scarf. And another article about a young girl in her school issue swim suit being disqualified fir being "indecent" which that was thankfully over turned. Funny how not being white and your resulting body/build can get you disqualified but a male puberty won't

Even in sports where women are successful, elite sports women repeatedly report kit that isn’t adapted for women, lack of training facilities, lack of coaching, poor or no pay, etc etc

This reminded me of the excellent speed by Victoria Hood at the A Woman's Place is on the Podium event last year.

There she describes the massive difference between the cycling world opportunities between men and women.

As a female you're lumped with one of two bad choices, both of which are covered in that speech - try to join in with the males - but you're physically out of your depth and just can't compete, or try to set up your own female events and training programs, but be unable to get the same level of support.

People like SodaPerson probably see the second bad option and in some utopian fashion think that just removing the female separation will help because women will now benefit from all the male competition and male facilities. Utterly deluded. Sure, they'll have the theoretical possibility to be there alongside the men, but in practice no woman would ever reach international level in any physical sport.

And knowing that would stop many women from even attempting to start the sport in the first place. No Olympic fantasies for girls permitted.

I don't think Soda belongs to the "women just need to try harder" faction (though I have come across a lot of lib fems who do seem to think this, in the face of all scientific evidence to the contrary). Soda appears to simply think that if women always lose at almost all sports (barring equestrianism and darts), that's just fine and dandy, because women, eh, who cares?

Who is going to sign off these...er...people for full contact sports against women? Which medical practitioners I mean? Uou are basically certifying that thus is safe. But even a cursory glance at the person in front of you the science would tell you it's not. So your insurance won't cover you if someone does get seriously injured. So what professional is going to sign this disclaimer?

Is it too much to hope that they know this and have just passed the buck for saying no to HCP's?

Perhaps someone should just update this website now with "2020: All Women's sports cancelled".

www.olympic.org/women-in-sport/background/key-dates

It is quite a bit as if mountain bike and motor bike races were initially kept separate because they are different vehicles, and then some bikes decided that they were really the other kind of bikes and that it was this identity which should decide the category of a particular bike.

So a motor bike identifying as a mountain bike would race with mountain bikes and in most events would win simply because of what the bikes consist of and what was put into them in manufacture.

Mountain bikes identifying as motor bikes would race with the latter and very rarely win a race again.

Over time any sponsors in these races would stop sponsoring mountain bikes, and with a little more time all the races, initially segregated by different bike types, would be dominated by motor bikes.

I know everyone here knows this, but it is so weird to see official organisations pretending not to know this or simply not caring at all about mountain bikes. I also get frustrated with the argument that motor bikes are somehow prevented from competing if they identify as mountain bikes but are not allowed to race against those. They can still compete as motor bikes.

nepeta exactly this ^^ But their womanly feelz would be hurt........not that they're mediocre within their own class with no chance of winning......

Greencoatblue, I have wondered about the nonbinary category. A man could identify in that category and alter nothing in his life, take no hormones, wear no makeup etc., just demand 'they' pronouns. Could he then compete in the female category? Could he use women's toilets where they are single-sex?

The toilet segregation was also initially based on two things: Differences in body plumbing and differences in the percentage of people who are sexual predators of some kind within each sex. Neither that nor sports participation had nothing to do with one's inner identity feels.

In a global obesity crisis they think this is a good idea? Maybe when the men realise women will give up and get fat then they’ll pay attention.

To be left with the crumbs of chess, some gymnastics, equestrianism and no contact karate (paint the fence?!) Wow, thanks. Women are competitive, enjoy being part of a team, want to see sports stars to look up to, get endorphins from exercise (Ie have valid human feelings) etc. There’s a reason sports are so important in all cultures and that they make so much money. I just cannot understand why no one is willing to put more than 10 minutes thought into a better solution for women and also the trans community because this is so shortsighted. No-one will benefit from lies, unfairness and injuries long term.

So annoyed at this. These policies aren’t “inclusive”. They exclude women and girls.

@SunsetBeetch

This does nothing to dispell my feelings that Australia is an inherently misogynistic country. Sorry, Aussies!

It's no better, no worse than any other comparable Western nation.

@nepeta

It is quite a bit as if mountain bike and motor bike races were initially kept separate because they are different vehicles, and then some bikes decided that they were really the other kind of bikes and that it was this identity which should decide the category of a particular bike.

So a motor bike identifying as a mountain bike would race with mountain bikes and in most events would win simply because of what the bikes consist of and what was put into them in manufacture.

Mountain bikes identifying as motor bikes would race with the latter and very rarely win a race again.

Over time any sponsors in these races would stop sponsoring mountain bikes, and with a little more time all the races, initially segregated by different bike types, would be dominated by motor bikes.

I know everyone here knows this, but it is so weird to see official organisations pretending not to know this or simply not caring at all about mountain bikes. I also get frustrated with the argument that motor bikes are somehow prevented from competing if they identify as mountain bikes but are not allowed to race against those. They can still compete as motor bikes.

babylonbee.com/news/motorcycle-that-identifies-as-bicycle-sets-world-cycling-record

Your analogy very apt!

mindfulnessfail, how hilarious!

Sad news. We’re finally getting some positive action in Britain — self-ID excluded from GRA reforms, and new guidance for schools — but Australia has taken a huge step backwards.

Australia will catch on and catch up, though it might take a year or three. It's concerning how many women will be injured on the field in the meantime, and whether it will take a death to make the insanity of this sink in.

Ruling bodies of all sports need to do a compulsory refresher on human biology and physics, with a focus on forces, levers, momentum, vectors etc. They don't seem to have a clue about the impact of large, heavy bodies moving at speed on smaller, lighter ones...

With Handball’s apology to HM, it has brought lots of attention back to the topic. So, probably not there intention but this is clearly not going to go away and this may actually force sports boards to think about who their priority actually is. Women who want fairness and safety or those who have advantages of male puberty to have inclusion. If women keep objecting, it will not be able to be swept under the carpet.

Bringing HM back as an advisor is fine, but also include someone like Dr Hilton for balance. And follow the science first.

No apology for the women forced to play against HM though or mention that the terrible thing they’re apologising for was asking HM to shower separately from the women on the team who had said that - god knows why - they didbt fancy 6ft 2 17 stone of fully be penised Male showering with them the bigots!

They're going to end up like Scottish Cycling
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4040854-Women-s-cycling-questionnaire

I will never understand how male people seriously competing against female people in physical sports aren't just deeply, toe-curlingly ashamed of themselves. It's so pathetic. Why don't they realise they look like the competitive dad off The Fast Show or some grown adult dominating the Year 4 sack race on sport's day?

Except much more serious of course, sorry didn't mean to make it sound like a trivial issue. I just cringe for these people.

I think your analogy is perfect Saucy, this should be ridiculed because it is ridiculous.

SaucyHorse - yep. Also, the kind of person who insists on showering with women, despite their discomfort, is not someone who should be showering with women. And clearly not someone who has the slightest understanding of women, because has never felt physically vulnerable.