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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

First post... be kind

49 replies

OverTheRainbow88 · 30/09/2020 10:19

Why do you think that on MN when there is a gender disappointment thread it’s 99% about having boys?

OP posts:
jellyfrizz · 30/09/2020 10:21

Because people want a mini-me and this is a female-heavy site?

jellyfrizz · 30/09/2020 10:22

What are your thoughts?

Inthebleakmidwinteriwouldsing · 30/09/2020 10:22

Because most posters here are women. Our culture divides people up along gender lines so incredibly rigidly, it’s harder to imagine yourself having as much in common with an opposite-sex child.

I especially love how gender rules are strictly enforced throughout life, and yet if parents dare to express a preference for their baby’s sex people are shocked!

Angryresister · 30/09/2020 10:22

Never seen it on this board, try putting your question up wherever you saw it..

sanluca · 30/09/2020 10:23

Is it? I have to say I knew mine were girls and a bit dissapointed when I knew the sex of the second baby. Who btw is absolutely fabulous. It is just that I will never have the experience of raising one of each sex. Oh well, poor me and all that....

OverTheRainbow88 · 30/09/2020 10:25

Sorry, I didn’t see it on the feminist board, but was interested in your opinions, if that’s ok?

I read a thread on here yesterday about mixed sex toilets and it got me thinking, wouldn’t people maybe want boys if there’s less risk to them being sexual abused, discriminated against etc?

OP posts:
BlueCatRedCat · 30/09/2020 10:27

99%? How have you come up with that figure?

Aesopfable · 30/09/2020 10:27

Just for future reference - it is not a good idea to instruct this board to ‘be kind’. There are a lot of feminist issues tied up with those two words.

Why disappointment with boys? Because they are harder to relate to? Why are girls’ dolls invariably female? There may be a clue in that?

OverTheRainbow88 · 30/09/2020 10:29

Well I didn’t want to say 100% as thought that would be questioned. But actually I’ve only ever read threads about boy disappointment.

Noted about ‘be kind’.

OP posts:
napody · 30/09/2020 10:30

@Inthebleakmidwinteriwouldsing

Because most posters here are women. Our culture divides people up along gender lines so incredibly rigidly, it’s harder to imagine yourself having as much in common with an opposite-sex child.

I especially love how gender rules are strictly enforced throughout life, and yet if parents dare to express a preference for their baby’s sex people are shocked!

Agree with this.
TheChampagneGalop · 30/09/2020 10:35

@OverTheRainbow88

Sorry, I didn’t see it on the feminist board, but was interested in your opinions, if that’s ok?

I read a thread on here yesterday about mixed sex toilets and it got me thinking, wouldn’t people maybe want boys if there’s less risk to them being sexual abused, discriminated against etc?

Better to campaign to make the world safer for girls than to hope you only have sons. As for preferences on this site, yes a lot of parents want a "mini me".
dolorsit · 30/09/2020 10:41

Because this is predominantly a female website. It's not an uncommon occurrence for a parent to have a desire for a child who is the same sex as them.

Sometimes it is due to sexist stereotypes of what that child will be like but it can sometimes be a subconscious "fear of the other"

Once pregnant I had an incredibly strong desire for a girl. At the time this really shocked and worried me that I felt this way. I chose not to find out the sex thinking I wouldn't care once the baby was born.

I never found out if I would have had "gender disappointment" as I had a girl. For me the feeling was nothing to do with having a mini me but more fear of having a son who might be like the other males in my family and wanting to break the cycle of dysfunctional female relationships.

BlueCatRedCat · 30/09/2020 10:42

And yet, with one Google search, I can easily find several threads where people have said they wanted a boy and are disappointed with having a girl. Perhaps you are not searching hard enough.

Judashascomeintosomemoney · 30/09/2020 10:43

wouldn’t people maybe want boys if there’s less risk to them being sexual abused, discriminated against etc
Well, silly I know, but I’m quite happy with my daughters, thanks. Now, if only men would stop discriminating against, assaulting, raping and murdering Women, maybe I could relax a bit.
(PS please don’t respond with a version of NAMALT)

sleepyhead · 30/09/2020 10:44

Our culture emphasises a mother-daughter bond. It doesn't matter whether this bond actually exists as a general rule, it's about cultural expectations and isn't rational.

e.g. "A son is a son til he takes him a wife, a daughter's your daughter for all of your life".

We absorb these unconsciously just as we absorb other aspects of our culture.

And yes, I think it's understandable to think you'd somehow know more about being a mother of a girl than a boy when you're a woman yourself, even though in reality you might be much closer to your son, and find it tricky to relate to the particular personality of the daughter you actually have.

Stripesgalore · 30/09/2020 10:44

‘Because most posters here are women. Our culture divides people up along gender lines so incredibly rigidly, it’s harder to imagine yourself having as much in common with an opposite-sex child.

I especially love how gender rules are strictly enforced throughout life, and yet if parents dare to express a preference for their baby’s sex people are shocked!’

It is likely you will have some important elements not in common with your son, as he will grow up to be a man in a sexist society and is bound to take some of that sexism on board. I wouldn’t want to live in a house as the only woman amongst men or have all my closest family members be male.

Of course men and women are also people. I have many shared interests with my adult son that I don’t have with my adult daughter simply because they are different people.

Gender disappointment threads receive a great deal of negativity, and it irritates me because it feeds into the whole mothers should sacrifice everything and not have any feelings or desires of their own.

Beamur · 30/09/2020 10:47

It's an interesting question.
I didn't find out the sex of my baby before she was born, but was convinced I was having a boy. I was slightly disappointed by that but really didn't think about why.
To be honest, I still don't know why. I had a very close relationship with my Mum and perhaps on some level hoped to replicate that. My Dad, much less so...
But I wasn't actually interested enough either way to find out before birth.

ErrolTheDragon · 30/09/2020 10:47

The few times I've seen threads about 'gender disappointment' (and I think that is the accurate term in this context, not sex disappointment) I've not really noticed if it's one way or another but generally the OP is mostly told YABU.

Elsewhere in the world, the incidence of 'gender disappointment' is reduced by selectively aborting female babies. Maybe we should discuss that too by way of perspective?

MedusasBadHairDay · 30/09/2020 10:47

Personally for my first child I was hopeful for a little girl, largely because I figured I'd know what to do with a girl more (eg. How to talk to her about puberty once she reached that age). However I ended up with a boy, and then I think when it hit me how terrifying the world felt as a parent, so for my second pregnancy I switched to wanting only boys because that seemed slightly less scary.

I'd imagine as well that wondering how you can raise a boy and somehow avoid him taking on misogynistic views and behaviours is going to play some part on a board like MN, it scares me that one day my sweet gentle boy might end up taking on board those messages that society bombards boys with.

Essentially the world is currently such a misogynistic place that it makes perfect sense to be worried about having a child of either sex.

Plus you need to remember that not all MN posters would identify as feminists - let alone rad or GC feminists, especially outside FWR, so a fair portion will want a girl because they think they'll have more in common with a girl (eg. Stereotypes like clothes shopping). And a lot will have grown up playing with baby dolls which are largely female, which will make it easier to imagine babies as girls. And of course there is the idea that girls are more likely to stay close to parents as they grow up, be more helpful around the house, and take on caring responsibilities.

I'm surprised anyone would be surprised that women tended to want daughters not sons.

OneEpisode · 30/09/2020 10:48

Mumsnet boards do sometimes reflect prejudices, like wider society does, and the child preference thing reflects the individual’s perception of current, local reality, not their long term hopes for wider society.

For what it’s worth, there was a survey done by (boo hiss) Bounty back in 2011, that ranked by happiness these child combos and it came back in order:

  1. Two girls
  2. One boy and one girl
  3. Two boys
  4. Three girls
  5. Three boys
  6. Four boys
  7. Two girls and one boy
  8. Two boys and one girl
  9. Three boys and one girl
10. Three girls and one boy 11. Two boys and two girls 12. Four girls
CopsCantCatchCriminals · 30/09/2020 10:50

(PS please don’t respond with a version of NAMALT)

(Slight derail - apols.)

I haven't seen a NAMALTer on these boards for some time.

Looks like they've all finally got the fucking message?

OverTheRainbow88 · 30/09/2020 10:50

Thank you, very insightful.

I am dual heritage, and I must admit I shamefully thought about how life for my children would be easier if I married a white person so my children would be predominantly white. Whereas I married a man who is from Nigeria, and still now watching them grow up I wonder how their life may have been easier if they were white.

OP posts:
sleepyhead · 30/09/2020 10:51

Exactly, the gender disappointment in the UK which skews towards a (slight) preference for girls is benign, and other than a few people maybe having more children than they would otherwise in search for their elusive girl (or boy), is generally fleeting and disappears after the actual baby is a reality and not just a concept.

The gender skew towards boys in other places results in the horrific treatment of girls up to and including their murder, or them not being born in the first place.

BeyondsConstantBangingHeadache · 30/09/2020 10:51

Perhaps it's due to an understanding that MMALT?

As most posters here are women, if they have a girl, they have to teach her things from personal experience. If they have a boy, they have to try to teach them things outside of their personal experience, but always be extra aware of the influence of patriarchy on them. They might be a perfectly nice child to begin, but most dodgy men probably were nice children. At some point, something went wrong.

Then otoh there is an issue with wanting a girl to have a little dress up doll. I don't know what the cross-over is between these two camps though!

Vermeil · 30/09/2020 10:52

Well, just speaking for myself, I wanted a boy and that’s what I got. He’s lovely. I’m glad it worked out that way, too, as I’ve since found that if I’d had a girl the poor thing may well have inherited my BRCA1 gene mutation and faced some very difficult decisions and a lot of painful surgery later on in adulthood.

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