Dr Michael Brady NHS CQC GIDS inspector - 'Important message for everyone with a cervix

[FindTheTruth]

Michael Brady - The Care Quality Commission (CQC) is due to inspect The Tavistock and Portman NHS Foundation Trust, Gender Identity Services GIDS

Will GIDS review questions (to get feedback from people using the service, parents, relatives, carers, and staff) use words like 'girl' or 'woman' or 'cervix haver'? or 'boy' or 'prostate owner'?

'Important message for everyone with a cervix.' re smear tests
twitter.com/drmbrady/status/1310178657940525057

Absolutely nobody says that.

However only women have those things. No man has ever had a period or given birth. It's just a fact.

Yes they do say that, it has been said on threads on here numerous times, I notice it because it offends me, you don't care so it doesn't register.

If you are complaining of being offended by things people say then have the courtesy to avoid offending others.

Menstruation does not define me being a woman, but only women menstruate. I don’t have a problem with this. Good for you, I take it you accept that other people may feel differently?

Another point is Dr Brady's omission of two groups within the LGBT community. Where are the L and the B? Why highlight non-binary women and transmen and not mention lesbians or bisexual women?

Sorry thought my earlier post hadn't gone through.

only women can menstruate - no biological man has ever menstruated ever. Its not a question of feeling, its a question of fact. "women and transmen" is fine, "people with a cervix" is unclear and unhelpful

If you are complaining of being offended by things people say then have the courtesy to avoid offending others.

Do you think it's ok for health communications to be written in ways which may not be readily understood by a significant proportion of their target audience? How does that weigh against 'offence' ?

Few of us mind additional descriptions being added, to include TM if it genuinely helps them.

ErrolTheDragon I am talking about people on mumsnet who have frequently stated that women have wombs/menstruate/can get babies or whatever. I wasn't commenting on health communications I was talking about people on here saying things that are hurtful to many women, I have a friend who had a breakdown after a hysterectomy as she said she was no longer a woman, feeding into that sort of pain isn't clever is it? Well maybe some of you think it is, the rest of us get classed as eunuchs so I'll leave you women to it.

AncientGran just to be clear.

Are you saying that the wording 'women and other people with a cervix' is offensive to you when discussing smear tests?

If that's correct, what would your preferred wording be?

Just to make sure there isn't any cross purposes stuff going on here.

Oh just seen that post.

This is a thread about health communications though :/

Well maybe some of you think it is, the rest of us get classed as eunuchs so I'll leave you women to it.

Classed as eunuchs by whom?

I'm a woman.

I have never had children, I don't have periods, and never breast fed.

I am a woman however as I am an adult human of the sex class female: the sex category which has the potential to gestate young irrespective of whether I actually can or have done that.
Any oppression I face as a woman is because of this perceived not actual potential.

How else am I woman?
Am I woman because I feel womanly? What does that mean?
Can you think of a definition of woman that includes all women and isn't sex based?

Surely it's far more reductive to say a woman is a woman because she subscribes to the gender role imposed on her by society.

I'm sorry to hear your friend was in emotional pain due to her hysterectomy, but this was down to the value that society puts on women's reproductive potential. Creating a description category is simply that a description, not a judgement.

Anybody who would say that if you don't have a womb then you can't be a woman isn't very bright and that is NOT gender critical feminist position at all.

So much of the discrimination against women as a class derives from the realities of reproductive biology that I don't think there's any way to avoid referring to those things on a feminism board, and I'm not sure any apology is needed for doing so. Most such discussions I've seen include clarifications re only women do those things, not all women do.
Quite a lot of regular contributors are infertile/post menopausal etc themselves - we know there is stuff needing to be discussed about women in general, it's not all about us.

Anybody who would say that if you don't have a womb then you can't be a woman isn't very bright and that is NOT gender critical feminist position at all. Well let's hope people stop saying it.

@ancientgran

Anybody who would say that if you don't have a womb then you can't be a woman isn't very bright and that is NOT gender critical feminist position at all. Well let's hope people stop saying it.

If you can post links to examples of someone saying that, I'm sure a lot of us would be more than happy to go and tell them to stop it.

Who has said if you don't have a womb you're not a woman?

If you are a female and you don't have a womb, then that is either because something went wrong and you were born without one, or because it was removed.

If you are a male, including transwomen, and you don't have a womb, then neither of those things apply. Nothing has gone wrong and nothing has been removed.

As people on the twitter thread said...

How do I know if I have a cervix?

It seems rather sexist to me to suggest that transmen somehow fail to understand they still need smear tests. But transwomen do understand they need to get their prostate checked. Clearly, as there's no attempt to change the language around that.

Gosh, looks like the NHS hasn't felt the need to use "inclusive" language when referring to prostate-havers.

@ancientgran

Anybody who would say that if you don't have a womb then you can't be a woman isn't very bright and that is NOT gender critical feminist position at all. Well let's hope people stop saying it.

Link to the people that are saying it

I have never seen it here

@ancientgran

ErrolTheDragon I am talking about people on mumsnet who have frequently stated that women have wombs/menstruate/can get babies or whatever. I wasn't commenting on health communications I was talking about people on here saying things that are hurtful to many women, I have a friend who had a breakdown after a hysterectomy as she said she was no longer a woman, feeding into that sort of pain isn't clever is it? Well maybe some of you think it is, the rest of us get classed as eunuchs so I'll leave you women to it.

There's a big difference between "only women can menstruate/get pregnant/breastfeed" and "all women menstruate...". The first is GC and the second is, well, not very well thought-out and indeed insensitive to women who haven't or cannot do those things. Of course they are still women. I don't know if I've ever seen a feminist say such a thing but I have seen TRA types twist the first phrase as implying the second one, in some kind of gotcha moment. It doesn't work.

@ancientgran

ErrolTheDragon I am talking about people on mumsnet who have frequently stated that women have wombs/menstruate/can get babies or whatever. I wasn't commenting on health communications I was talking about people on here saying things that are hurtful to many women, I have a friend who had a breakdown after a hysterectomy as she said she was no longer a woman, feeding into that sort of pain isn't clever is it? Well maybe some of you think it is, the rest of us get classed as eunuchs so I'll leave you women to it.

Oh come on! Saying women can do all those things does not suggest that women who haven’t or can’t, aren’t women. The only people who use that are TRAs, as a nonsense attempt at a gotcha. No GC woman on here has never suggested such a thing.

I'm trying to articulate my thoughts here so bare (bear?) with me.

One thing I hate about this 'gender critical feminists say you can't be a woman without a womb' bollocks is it's a sleight of hand that positions trans women as simply women without wombs rather than male.

It's usually traumatic for a woman to find out she is infertile or has to have her womb removed, it's a savage pain that only a woman could understand. Not all women experience it but only women can.
Being a woman without a womb is PART of the female experience.

Being a male without a womb is just being male. Trans women are usually not infertile they just aren't women.

It's like saying to an elephant that hands it's trunk cut off that a hippo understands it's pain.

@Snoringferret

I'm trying to articulate my thoughts here so bare (bear?) with me.

One thing I hate about this 'gender critical feminists say you can't be a woman without a womb' bollocks is it's a sleight of hand that positions trans women as simply women without wombs rather than male.

It's usually traumatic for a woman to find out she is infertile or has to have her womb removed, it's a savage pain that only a woman could understand. Not all women experience it but only women can.
Being a woman without a womb is PART of the female experience.

Being a male without a womb is just being male. Trans women are usually not infertile they just aren't women.

It's like saying to an elephant that hands it's trunk cut off that a hippo understands it's pain.

👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

@Snoringferret

I'm trying to articulate my thoughts here so bare (bear?) with me.

One thing I hate about this 'gender critical feminists say you can't be a woman without a womb' bollocks is it's a sleight of hand that positions trans women as simply women without wombs rather than male.

It's usually traumatic for a woman to find out she is infertile or has to have her womb removed, it's a savage pain that only a woman could understand. Not all women experience it but only women can.
Being a woman without a womb is PART of the female experience.

Being a male without a womb is just being male. Trans women are usually not infertile they just aren't women.

It's like saying to an elephant that hands it's trunk cut off that a hippo understands it's pain.

This.

The argument that women without wombs are women in the same way that transwomen are women, because they both have in common that they don't have a womb, is so deeply offensive.

Who remembers when Lily Madigan (I know, who?!) was on Twitter claiming that their inability to get pregnant was exactly the same as a women who wasn't in the ovulation part of her menstrual cycle's inability to get pregnant?!!!

How can you be woman-friendly and attract women to your important service when you can't even name them?

This is the shameful thing. They are funded to treat women and they won't say the word.

I just checked with my friend, from Eastern Europe if she knew where her cervix was, she did not. I then checked with dd (11) she also didn’t, I have work to do there. It goes to show though. Woman yes, cervix no.

Menstruation does not define me being a woman, but only women menstruate. I don’t have a problem with this. Good for you, I take it you accept that other people may feel differently?

Absolutely. But erasing the word women erases us all - irrespective of how you feel about it.