Men who ‘woke wash’ their hatefulness

[Siablue]

This is a rant about awful men. I have posted before about being a victim of domestic abuse. No one thinks it would happen to them but in recent days I have been thinking about how many nice men are raging mysoginists.

It is not acceptable now to openly express racist or mysoginists can views any more so men (especially white middle class men) so buying into ‘woke’ ideology is a good way of maintaining your power.

Recently for some high profile awful men have let their awfulness show and been called out on it. This was really heartening to me to see that other people (mainly women but not always) can see it and call it out.

I think the appeal of trans activism is that you can be seen as being virtuous whilst directing horrible misogyny at women. I think they sometimes push things they know will upset women so they can bully us for speaking out.

They don’t believe it themselves how could they it is so contradictory and non sensical. It makes me wonder if they believe in anything at all. If they are really racist but know that you should express anti racist views but privately don’t believe it.

The popularity of some of these men is a reflection of how many men in society hate women.

I shall leave this here.

Yes @TorkTorkBam !

....

Here is another.

Anybody else have any other good ones mocking the pompous twits? I find it helps me avoid exploding with fury. Maybe it will help Sia too.

This is a thing then. I am not going nuts.

TorkTorkBam that is the only possible explanation for Benjamin Butterworth. He took a position that was expressly designed to give an opportunity to a black student. Being the only person who will debate the trans activist position gets him on the telly when he is basically a nobody and he was very rude about Rose of Dawn on Twitter when she is a member of the group he claimed to care about.

Frankie Boyle is now the voice of social justice when his previous act was basically hate speech. You don’t go from making jokes about punching a pregnant woman in the stomach so she loses her baby or mocking children with Down’s syndrome to being TVs Mr Social Justice. That was a calculated move to save his career.

Or maybe just the entitlement and confidence of a mediocre man. Occam's razor.

I rather liked this article:
medium.com/all-about-women/grant-every-woman-the-confidence-of-a-mediocre-white-man-e6f9b9d0cc5f

I've mentioned before the concept of self-licensing/ moral licensing - seems to fit here.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-licensing

Yes both of those concepts really apply. Some of it is just a massive sense of entitlement and the self licensing thing where they really believe they are a good person so they are justified in doing what they do. That relates to my ex as well as so many of the men in the mysoginists hall of fame,

@TorkTorkBam

I shall leave this here.

I don't buy into the whole 'white dude' thing, which I used to a bit.

It would be no better if it was a mixed race, black, asian dude or anyone other man doing it. If you look at what women are treated like all over the world, a man's whiteness should have little relevance in the sex & gender debate. Men don't behave any better if they are not white.

EarthSight I think it does in the UK and other contexts. In places in the world it would apply to males from whichever group had more privilege in that context.

I do think that white men have to be careful to be seen not to be ‘punching down’ so can go on the defensive by being vocal about certain issues.

Oh God, these memes. Let's all log off the internet and go for a bracing walk in the open air.

I definitely think that the TWAW has given misogynists on the left who have secretly hated feminists for years but felt it was not acceptable to admit to it have seen this as them finally being able to vent their hatred and actually be applauded for it as being progressive

@thebiggestmoose

I definitely think that the TWAW has given misogynists on the left who have secretly hated feminists for years but felt it was not acceptable to admit to it have seen this as them finally being able to vent their hatred and actually be applauded for it as being progressive

Absolutely. It's meant they can be as openly misogynist as they like, while declaring they're doing it to defend women 'because TWAW'. Do they really think women can't see what, and who, they are?

If you're a male, and shouting down, mansplaining, and/or abusing women, because they are very sensibly uneasy about male bodies in spaces where female bodies are vulnerable, then you're a nasty little misogynist.

Frankie Boyle thought it was funny to suggest that a profoundly disabled child might rape his mother. That's the moral level he inhabits, and the level of respect he has for genuinely vulnerable people.

@thebiggestmoose

I definitely think that the TWAW has given misogynists on the left who have secretly hated feminists for years but felt it was not acceptable to admit to it have seen this as them finally being able to vent their hatred and actually be applauded for it as being progressive

I think there is an element of this yes.

However, I also think that there is also a lack of awareness of what it means to be a woman typically amongst middle class men.

They grow up in households that are financially comfortable. Their mothers have either chosen to be SAHM's or have a career.

They look at the world through the narrow lens of their sheltered experience and wonder what all the fuss is about.

Their mum is doing fine, their sister is at uni on route to a professional career, their female friends/girlfriends are feisty and independent - what equality/rights are lacking/at risk?

They personally don't experience the casual everyday sexism of being ignored at the bar, wolf whistled, someone speaking to your bust not your face etc etc

They don't know how many times their mum was passed over for promotion in lieu of men who didn't take time off to look after them as a sick child or that their mothers pension is worth half of their fathers due to repeated maternity leave.

They have no awareness of what the lives of women in vulnerable circumstances are like. How some mothers are exploited because they need to buy nappies/put food on the table.

In short they think women have equality and those that don't "share" their good fortune with less privileged men are bloody whinging old meanies who are out of step with appropriate and morale social values.

I'm not sure this is most of the time what is happening in the way I think you are suggesting.

I mean, I do think there are certain very cynical people who deliberately craft a sort of facade to cover their real motives and intents. These people are generally sociopaths or have personality disorders if they are adults. Some younger people will grow out of it. But it's not a huge group of people.

And the self-justification thing is real, to the point that I'd say almost everyone does it somewhat and it requires a certain amount of self-awareness to guard against it, and maturity. People who aren't very self aware are more prone to it.

But I think a lot of the people who seem to fit these profile are mainly asshats. They will try and dominate almost anyone they think they can in a personal encounter or relationship, or ingratiate themselves if they can't dominate. But they don't connect that to whatever they believe about racism or sexual equality etc in an abstract sense.

Also, however contradictory and nonsensical it seems, there are people who really believe it. I've seen several people - women in both cases - reduced to tears because others were suggesting that there was something amis in the basic idea. Both very kind people, no agenda, progressive identities, university educated. They absolutely believe it and think that it's basically science denial to disagree.

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/sacked-lild-worker-samuel-jackson-finds-virtue-in-stoicism-claim-2zmhr2qcg

There feels like an element of
Women = interfering busy bodies need to stop doing things.

Men = campaigning tirelessly for social justice (just mainly in conversation or online)

I think it assuages the guilt from past generations homophobia/racism to be able to throw themselves behind wokeness and deflects attention (consciously or unconsciously) from their own privileged position but without them having to do much. ( For men and women)

It also handily misdirects the issue to ‘women being conservative and prissy and won’t let them in’ rather than ‘men being violent and mocking and forcing them out’. Everyone knows it’s much easier to guilt trip a woman. It’s always good to have a community scapegoat!

But the blind cheek of FB. Someday his back catalogue will be thrown in his sneering face.

I think it's just certain woke men generally whatever colour they are. I've got three at the moment stalking my every feminist Facebook post with their wokey pokes.
Ones a green party representitive who thinks he's an expert on prostitution. Another is now stalking me and sending messages under a psuedo banner of asking me about racial issues I may have faced as a POC. Another was trying to tell me Cuties was only bad in the eye of the beholder. I might start posting images of salami chopping just to gaslight them.

i love mumsnet

avacadobathroom really catches the mood

I definitely think that the TWAW has given misogynists on the left who have secretly hated feminists for years but felt it was not acceptable to admit to it have seen this as them finally being able to vent their hatred and actually be applauded for it as being progressive

Well phrased: absolutely agree.

Trade Unions are the worst. Women in positions to effect change are only there as glove puppets (Francis O'Grady e.g.) and it is obvious.

They cannot see it themselves and how their stranglehold on the movements has held it back and it still resembles a 1970's working men's club.

They are in the thick of wokeness and I think misogyny is at the heart of it

It is not just TWAW. It is surrogacy (I won’t go there because the thread was deleted) sex work is work, which really allows the most disgustingly sexist men to rebrand themselves as ‘feminists’ without changing any of their views. Even being against child sexual abuse is now being rebranded as right wing and you are a modern day Mary Whitehouse if you object.

Destroying women with good conscience seems to be de rigueur these days.