Chair of LGBT APPG complains that deals worked out behind the scenes not adhered too

[Kit19]

“In privately agreeing a way forward with the wider LGBT+ lobby both in parliament & outside”

Nice to have it confirmed that this was all being sewn up behind closed doors

OOoh - rainbow lanyard alert.

Well done Jackie!

Truss gets the dichotomy between MPs bleating about self-ID and actual trans people saying their priority is medical care.

@Melroses

13000 currently waiting is a long, long way from the 5000 in total originally given when the GRA was passed

These are not the same. The 5000 was the estimated number of how many people who identify as trans would seek to legally change sex within the first 15 years after enacting the GRA. This estimate was entirely correct.

The 13,000 figure are people who asked for a referral. Most of them would have normally received counselling and gone no further. Those who actually medically transition all the way out of those who approach the NHS for help are in the minority.

UPDATE video clip of GRA discussion in the House of Commons just now:. Fascinating!

parliamentlive.tv/event/index/f63a02f0-0018-4a77-b8d4-037dc41e3558?in=10:38:16&out=11:08:27

Includes mentions of:

Under 18’s - CASS NHS review announced yesterday

Biological sex

Remove Gender Dysphoria as a condition?? (Liz answer: ‘that is a matter for clinicians’)

Single sex spaces

Suicide stats

Levelling accusations at me is not helpful

Baroness Parkers FOI request - who has Liz met? (Liz answer: we met 140 organisations including LGBT and women’s organisations)

Corporates view is a matter for them not government

Domestic abuse shelters - what is the approach to Women’s prisons? (Liz answer: they can restrict access based on biological sex)

Trans community hopes raised then dashed, in context of rise in hate crimes

Working in Argentina and Ireland (Liz answer: healthcare comes out as the number one issue and focusing on that is the way to lead better lives)

Will she reconfirm support for single sex spaces? (Liz answer: the position is clear in the equality act. It’s important women’s spaces are protected)

What steps to remove trans hate crimes? (Liz answer: home office taking action to address this)

What under 18’s specialist support measures? (Liz answer: Dr Hilary Cass has been appointed to lead a review into young people, referral route and best practice)

Crispin Blunt MP (Reigate, Conservative) urgent question (UQ) this morning in the House of Commons on Liz Truss's statement on the Government's response to the GRA Consultation

You got everything that you said was an issue sorted. Cost, accessibility, healthcare. The only thing you didn't get was the end of single sex spaces.

I mean, that was just a long list of MPs, with a few honourable exceptions, complaining that single sex provision is still legal, basically.

Bastards.

@Melroses

Emotional blackmail now. Shameless

Guilting into action from the SNP. Also shameless. Does the government care about international human rights law?

CEDAW anyone? Or the European Court of Human Rights which decided in 2017 that requiring a medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria before being allowed to legally change sex is an entirely reasonable safeguard and not a human rights violation.

Worrying that the SNP MP said the Scottish Government will push self-id through before May 2021. We've been told GRA reform is on hold.

And prepared to stand up the commons and say it.

No singles sex spaces, not interested in children's welfare.

@FloralBunting

You got everything that you said was an issue sorted. Cost, accessibility, healthcare. The only thing you didn't get was the end of single sex spaces.

I mean, that was just a long list of MPs, with a few honourable exceptions, complaining that single sex provision is still legal, basically.

Bastards.

Absolutely. Craven stupidity or misogyny?

I know it was way back in the thread but this really stood out to me:

Basically every identity group now demands that are the only ones who can say what is right and true in relation to their group. The community at large, the people, are the ones that have oppressed them, so they should have no say, whether or not that's democratic. In fact democracy in these instances is another way to oppress

One of the things I really noticed after Truss' announcement was the amount of TRAs who were horrified that women had responded to the consultation. It so indicative of the complete tunnel vision of the TRAs. It is also worrying that this view that only the group under discussion should be allowed a say in any decision making process, when the outcome will also impact other protected groups is so mainstream.

I've just created a separate thread for the house of commons questions and answers video

hope it doesn't confuse .... it's different to the specific topic of the APPG doing deals in back rooms in this thread

Another MP keen to show that this parliament represents all people. And that means trans people. Has anyone been keen to show that they represent women? I mean I'm watching these MPs say their constituents want self-id, but I know how many of them completely refuse to engage with women on this. Maybe we should contact them again? You know, 99th time lucky?

labour can get in the bin with the LD over this

how can they still not get that this is not about trans rights but women's rights to retain the single sex exemptions they already had in law???

Basically every identity group now demands that are the only ones who can say what is right and true in relation to their group.

With the absolute exception of female humans.

Who apparently should never be allowed to be involved in or consulted about anything directly affecting them, and should just shut up and do what they're told by male humans.

I knew all this. I'm still gobsmacked at the utter blatant extent of it being revealed yesterday and today. Greer had it right: male people hate women. It's really shocking to realise how much.

Not only that but clearly TRA's do not understand political climates. If MP's do not take the view of the public, they are likely to lose their seats.

Getting people on side has always been a good way to progress ideas

Ok. So basically blunt just said that in July his group had felt they secured what was effectively a turn around on what Liz Truss was going to announce before break.

He is complaining that his lobbying group that did not include any women’s rights balance has now been rendered powerless...... well!

Next step has to be addressing this scandal of lobbyist power. It just has to be.

And Blunt’s use of ‘screeching change of direction’ should be highlighted as misogynistic.

Well done Liz Truss for standing firm.

It really is the scandal that Cameron predicted, that APPGs are being set up and used to circumvent the stricter lobbying rules.

Public Enquiry please Mr Johnson

@highame

Public Enquiry please Mr Johnson

Yes.

Good on Liz Truss for standing firm. I would have thought that this highlights the need for the GRA to be scrapped. While it exists these interest groups will be pushing at the boundaries.

Two female MPs and a female minister stood up for us.
Liz Truss, Felicity Buchan, and Jackie Doyle-Price.

All-Party Parliamentary Group (APPG) on Global LGBT+ Rights don't represent all LGBT views. Very skewed. The four APPG partners include Stonewall but not LGBT people that disagree with Stonewall.

what can be done about an APPG that only has partners with one view pretending to speak for all?

partners that dismiss the views of of the community they claim to represent?

partners like Stonewall who don't listen to LGBT people?

partners that dismiss the views of of the community they claim to represent?

That's one of the key problems (politically at least) with identity politics in general.

In general politics we have multiple parties with opposing views. And we vote for them.

As soon as you then put identity politics into that, suddenly you have "community leaders" for each group. And each group gets exactly one lobbying voice, and it's far from clear what mandate they have. A cynic would suggest the powers that be would choose the most politically amenable/convenient group within any identity and selectively listen to them, rather than the other side.

It's a cynical way of undermining democracy. Debate within identity groups is ignored, and debate across identity groups is frowned upon.