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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Thank You

81 replies

DialSquare · 19/09/2020 13:38

I've been thinking about this a lot recently as I truly believe that the tide is turning and the world is waking up to this madness (extra thanks for the additional sunlight from Ben Button!). If it wasn't for the push back on this from some brilliant women, many of us would not be aware of the situation and gawd knows where we would be now (looking at some of the other countries with self ID for example). So I just want to say thank you to the wonderful women on here who spoke out early and at a great cost to many of them. You have enabled me to hold my head up high when the shit hits the fan and others will be denying they knew of the problems this would cause. Or were actively part of it.

OP posts:
thinkingaboutLangCleg · 19/09/2020 23:38

And from me. The assault on Maria Maclachlan in 2017 was what woke me up to the new misogyny. Then, with few places to discuss the issues, what a joy to hear about this nest of feminist vipers at Mumsnet. Not surprising really that a forum for mothers should support women's rights! It's good to be here.

CatsFantastic · 19/09/2020 23:41

An big thank you from me too Flowers

Redshoeblueshoe · 19/09/2020 23:42

I would like to thank Ringo Start for making me aware of all this. He refused to play a concert in one particular state, because the Bathroom Bill meant TW had to use the men's toilets.
I imagine he will change his views if it's his beloved wife that needs care/support.
So thank you to all the fabulous posters on here, and to MN for allowing this. Wine

Coyoacan · 19/09/2020 23:44

Another thank you, both for the calibre of the debate and the genuine kindness and compassion that people show here.

weaverbirds · 19/09/2020 23:54

Me too. Women have been stifled on these boards of late, unable to just speak the truth, tiptoeing round reality. I understand why, and ,appreciate having this space but I'm so glad that I came here when the conversations could still be direct and honest. So many brilliant women; my eyes were well and truly opened. It's uncomfortable but I'm so grateful.

BatShite · 20/09/2020 01:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BatShite · 20/09/2020 01:42

Yeah, thanks to all. I came quite 'late' to this, about 3 years ago maybe now. Like many I came from the 'lets just be kind' angle, and its so hard to even try going back there in my mind, knowing all I know now about it all. Took a while getting used to the very..upfront ( :grin: ) way a lot of mumsnetters are, especially FWR posters, but it was here that opened my eyes totally to the issue and I have appreciated having a corner of the internet where its allowed to be discussed.

I know I have whinged a lot about the restrictions on FWR, but I did understand why HQ did it. But I have always been so so grateful to Justine for letting us speak. Even when it looked to be threatening profits (not sure if it ever actually did affect profits or not though, but they tried and it wld have been easy to throw in the towel then) she stood by us, and stood up for our right to speak, as women, on topics that affect us. In the face of some heavy pressure from some groups too.

Flowers Wine for all.

/mushy head off, not really me Grin

Cupoftea1234 · 20/09/2020 07:41

I only joined mumsnet this year. I used to scroll through the active posts, and every so often would notice threads on trans issues in the feminist section. My thoughts used to be how bigoted such threads were (even though I never actually read them).
One day I noticed a thread with the title "just when you thought JK Rowling couldn't get any better " and curious as to what Harry Potter had to do with feminism I clicked and read. Over the following months I read with horror of what was happening, of the abuse towards JKR, and of cancelling of women who spoke up and so much else that I could not list them all..
I think what struck me most though was how many ordinary poster mentioned that they could not speak of their beliefs(i.e. speaking of reality) for fear of losing their jobs, losing friends and the fear of the abuse they would be subjected to. I couldn't believe this was happening inthe 21st century. It sounded like something from a movie .
I can now say I have been radicalised by mumsnet😂
Thank you to all the women who have fought in the wildernesses for many years. Your numbers are growing.💐

MilleniumHallsWalledGarden · 20/09/2020 08:30

I'd like to say thank you too, to all the women here who are doing so much to raise awareness and give support to women. ThanksThanksThanks

highame · 20/09/2020 08:32

Lots of hard work in front of us, but thanks for the rallying cry Dial. Nice to remind ourselves of all the truly intelligent, critical, brave, women who don't have the kudos of titles and fame. They have nevertheless battled on and must now be feeling that boulder going up the hill, is just getting a bit easier to push.

My thanks to you all Flowers Wine

CrossPorpoises · 20/09/2020 08:37

This board is great. I have learned so much. Thank you.

Galvantula · 20/09/2020 08:39

Me too. I've been on mumsnet for ten years, but up until a few years ago I only really read threads in fwr (and felt a bit intellectually inferior Blush ).

The amazing posters who spelled out what was happening completely opened my eyes. Once you see it, you can't unsee it and I'm glad to have been made aware.

FlowersWineGinCake

Runningshorts · 20/09/2020 08:44

Thank you from a long time lurker. You are all amazing Flowers

SapphosRock · 20/09/2020 08:47

Yep thanks everyone. I've learnt a lot on here.

gawd knows where we would be now (looking at some of the other countries with self ID for example).

Can you clarify what you mean by this OP? I thought Ireland was the only place that had self ID and there haven't been any problems? Have I missed something?

PopperUppleton · 20/09/2020 08:56

Radicalised by Mumsnet - me too! Grin

DialSquare · 20/09/2020 09:16

@SapphosRock

Yep thanks everyone. I've learnt a lot on here.

gawd knows where we would be now (looking at some of the other countries with self ID for example).

Can you clarify what you mean by this OP? I thought Ireland was the only place that had self ID and there haven't been any problems? Have I missed something?

Canada also. See some if the issues mentioned in this thread including an Irish poster who said there are problems with it.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3189795-Issues-with-gender-self-ID-in-other-countries

OP posts:
SunshineThelma · 20/09/2020 09:52

I only joined Mumsnet after the JKR "Terfwars" essay. I'd been an occasional lurker before but my exposure to the conversation was largely through twitter, which was (and still is) horrible.
As a millennial, leftwing woman, I've found myself at odds with friends and people I admired with alarming frequency.
I am reassured, heartened and thankful that FWR is here. I am not a bigot, I am not a rightwing reactionary and I'm not alone.

grafittiartist · 20/09/2020 09:58

😊

DialSquare · 20/09/2020 10:00

Also this post from CharlieParley on the Help Fact-check thread:

*There is evidence, from every single country that adopted self-id in law and policies, that these have been used for purposes other than the intended.

Mexico: men undermine the democratic process seeking to grant equal representation to women by identifying as women;

US: rape, sexual assaults and harassment, intimidation, physical violence and aggression against women in prison (several law suits), in shelters and refuges for homeless and/or battered women, removal of fair competition in high scholl and college sport leading to the loss of opportunity and scholarships for girls; increase in voyerism and assault in sanitary facilities and changing rooms;

Spain: self-id abused by men tried for domestic violence offences to gain access to their children;

Ireland: a number of exemptions for privacy, now that self-id is being utilised by males who identify as trans and who have not fully (or at all) transitioned, issues are starting to arise;

Norway: self-id used by fully intact male to shower and undress in communal women-only changing area. When challenged by female user, management agrees this is not ok and communicates this to the male. Who does not care, does it again, is challenged again, then sues the woman challenging him for transphobia, discrimination and harassment. Three year journey through various courts results in judgement for the woman. In the judgement, the judge criticises the badly thought out law. Currently the Norwegian government is trying to push through an amendment to their hate crime laws that will make a fair, equitable and above all public discussion about how self-id harms women's rights all but impossible;

Canada: much discussed here, problems in prison, refuges, rape crisis support. Problems with women being sued for offering services specific to women for women only;

UK: self-id policies causing problems in all aspects of life that impact men and women, boys and girls differently.

There's many more examples from*

OP posts:
Martinisarebetterdirty · 20/09/2020 10:05

Adding my thanks too!

CrossPorpoises · 20/09/2020 10:31

It amazes me that people could even imagine there would be no problems with so called self-id.

Over600Ecalypts · 20/09/2020 10:35

Thank you from me too Flowers

I'm more of a lurker than a poster but, after being drawn to FWR by the JKR threads, I've been encourage to write to all sorts of people about women's rights. I've also been digging.

TheWordWomanIsTaken · 20/09/2020 10:59

@youkiddingme

I hope you're right about the tide turning, though in rl I see more and more people supporting an agenda that worries me hugely. But this is the one place I can learn of things that most people seem to either have no idea about or refuse to listen to the possibility of more than one point of view on.

Thank you. Flowers

I came to FWR because I was aware of the issues and found some very intelligent women on here. It saddens me that on the other boards a lot of posters are very disparaging of this board - I pity them to be honest that they have no idea that they were sleepwalking into giving their rights away. But there is still a lot of work to do. Institutions and organisations (including schools) have bought into this born in the wrong body, self id nonsense. It needs to be rolled back and that means more of us stepping up. Hopefully the announcement on Wednesday and the subsequent challenges in court will allow more of us (including myself) to rise to the challenge.
BoreOfWhabylon · 20/09/2020 11:02

I am reassured, heartened and thankful that FWR is here. I am not a bigot, I am not a rightwing reactionary and I'm not alone.

Sums it up for me.

SapphosRock · 20/09/2020 11:08

Thanks for sharing the thread and info DialSquare

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