Permission to think Differently

[BovaryX]

Why should a small demented group of people who believe that the big bearded man with a penis is a woman if he says he is... that they should dictate the cultural weather across the country and make major authors have to fear for their careers and make all politicians become gibbering wrecks when the subject comes up. Why should that be the case?

One of the features of the ongoing culture war is the imposition of absurd, niche beliefs which have zero popular support but are enforced via the agents of the state. The police. The civil service. Primary, Secondary, Tertiary education. Politicians. This is a 21st century phenomenon and it is an existential threat to freedom of speech, critical thinking and Enlightenment values. Douglas Murray is scathing about the JKR attacks, but the bigger question is how does a tiny cadre of activists wield such influence? That you have to be a muti million selling author to confront them. It's incredible.

Totally bizarre how governments councils charities and jeez who knows who else think this pile of shite was ever a goer

But here w3 are

But it’s all hidden as most ordinary people don5 know this total idiocy is being carried out by people we are meant to do their bes5 for us

They get paid for it

Yet there they are working against women and girls in clear view but the view is only for the chosen few

@littlbrowndog

Totally bizarre how governments councils charities and jeez who knows who else think this pile of shite was ever a goer

But here w3 are

But it’s all hidden as most ordinary people don5 know this total idiocy is being carried out by people we are meant to do their bes5 for us

They get paid for it

Yet there they are working against women and girls in clear view but the view is only for the chosen few

litylebrown

It's insane. But I agree with you, this is being promoted by monolithic state institutions and people either don't know or trust the institution. Neither option is acceptable. This is 24k BS.

24k bs?

I think the absurdity is a feature, not a bug, as the saying goes.

It's so removed from reality that it's hardly credible, and thus hard to dissect. Harder to kill a phantom...

I suggest we meet at the HoP should the changes to the GRA seem to seriously be going ahead.

seriously to be

Thanks for asking this, it worries me to try to answer it. I wonder what else I’ve fallen for too.

Good question. I think the key to the influence-wielding is that it is something that benefits a group of males, ones who aren't as oppressed and vulnerable as they make out. There is also a massive amount of money behind this; JK has millions but some have billions. Then there may be the power of the male sex drive involved but I won't mention the unmentionable. Then there is the genuine fear people feel of being cancelled, cast out so we have the 'good people doing nothing' scenario.

I think we've all been sold a hundred crap ideas at one time or another and fallen for some toseland The Western diet, the nuclear family, the many uses of asbestos, the corporate ladder, computer-based everything, consumer tat, a healthy tan, disposable goods, religion, beauty products and ideals, discredited surgery, certain political ideologies, smart motorways, they lived happily ever after, liquorice being classified as a sweet.

Humans were not designed to work in groups of more than about 50 I don't reckon, and it shows. Larger groups allows frauds to flourish in anonymity and crazes to spread like wildfire. In other words, humans can be mean and stupid.

I was on a WHRC webinar last week (they do them every Saturday and I really recommend) with women from around the world describing the situation in their countries. The representative from Luxembourg gave an excellent presentation describing the background of her small country and how the law and politics work there. One man, ONE man, has caused merry hell demanding a range of new laws to protect gender ID right down to five year olds being able to change their identity. Everyone on the chat was amazed, the extent of the new laws he has promoted and that other politicians have variously jumped on the band wagon or nodded them through and, as usual, the rest of the country is totally ignorant.

twitter.com/declarationon/status/1307049412217237505?s=21

Link to register for today.

us02web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_Mq9EMIAbTkyNz5gAx4l2DQ

The shocking and depressing thing that comes out of these webinars, hearing from women around the world, is how similar the demands are, and the tactics, the small number of individuals promoting the changes, and how most of the country will be completely unaware what is going on.

These are the questions that need to be asked, Bovary. I think globalisation is part of it, along with the decline of community and democracy. I attach a page of a book I was reading today called 'Parish and belonging'. I can't articulate it, but all these things seem to be linked.

That is depressing, and feels true kayaking. Neil Oliver is good on this stuff - the importance of community and shared history.

Kayaking and PaleBlue

I think this is absolutely the case. I feel lucky that I grew up in a time and place with real community.

I feel that we in the UK have not fully resolved the disastrous effects of the industrial revolution on family and community. My mental health suffered greatly during my time living in areas of various cities devoid of community. There is something about knowing and being known.

So many people are trying to fill the void and find belonging in virtual communities I think.

There is something so grounding about living in a place where people know you, and know your parents, your siblings and your children and maybe even your grandparents, cousins etc.

There is something so reassuring about knowing that there are people around you who would help you in need and also having people come to you for help in turn. Feeling that you are part of something. It really helps with perspective.

You may not socialise together much or share the same opinions on things but there is this reciprocal good will extended. I think it also helps those in communities to understand and tolerate other points of view because the human connections become more important than the opinion. Frequent, brief, informal, incidental social interactions significantly alleviate loneliness and perhaps provide a sort of “validation” maybe that you are connected to the other humans around you. The occasional formal coming together for fireworks or a school play or Remembrance Sunday, or switching on the lights at Christmas consolidates it. I really think it is underrated.

I might look out that book, Parish and belonging.

Silicon Valley giants actively supporting trans activists and suppressing opposition.
Algorithms promoting idealised trans lives recruiting young people.
Pro trans activists are speedily recruiting new members on social media and are ruthlessly ganging up on anyone with a dissenting opinion.
Active suppression of women’s voices.
Cancel culture.
Queer theory taking the place of women’s studies in Universities and taking over traditional left wing media.

This literature on community and belonging rings very true for me as well. There have been good discussions in the past on the board about 'rootedness' and 'somewheres versus anywheres' and how different people's outlooks and politics can be depending on this. I know I risk being labelled whenever I post about this, but so much of the current political agenda seems to be around blending everyone and by making indigenous white people ashamed of their culture and communities which is another way of fracturing and weakening them. Globalisation and open borders is involved.

Also, I was listening to a programme on the Radio 4 this weekend about India and something that was mentioned was how often you get David and Goliath outcomes, so a small army or group managing to defeat and take over very large groups. This is because of tactics and superior technology. I think this is very true of the trans issue. We have noted how many are in IT. IT is a powerful weapon . Tactics have also been mentioned on other threads, the whole stay below the radar thing. They have also had a great standing start because of the patriarchy obviously.

Some really interesting perspectives from posters about community and the influence of tech. I think that the tech aspect is the core underpinning all of this. Tech is dominated by an insular, Manichean, authoritarian political viewpoint which regards freedom of speech not as an admirable Western value, but as a problem, an obstacle to righteous narrative control. This is evident time and time again when the response to the mildest dissent or even tremulous questions is denunciation and no platforming. The global media power of the tech giants makes the Murdoch brand look like a parochial newsletter. Defining mainstream public opinion as 'hate speech' when it is nothing of the sort is a deliberate and sinister tactic.

It's a perfect storm created by the combination of two conflicting urges: community and control.

On the one side is the urge to be part of a community, to be kind and inclusive - whether this is a genuine altruistic urge or the need to be seen to be altruistic - for the perceived greater good of the community.

On the other side is the urge to be in control. Again, whether altruistically because of a genuine belief that you know what is best, or for personal satisfaction at being in control.

Gender ideology combines the two in such a way that people effectively offer up their altruism (genuine or not) to those who wish to control (altruistic or not).

@FannyCann

I was on a WHRC webinar last week (they do them every Saturday and I really recommend) with women from around the world describing the situation in their countries. The representative from Luxembourg gave an excellent presentation describing the background of her small country and how the law and politics work there. One man, ONE man, has caused merry hell demanding a range of new laws to protect gender ID right down to five year olds being able to change their identity. Everyone on the chat was amazed, the extent of the new laws he has promoted and that other politicians have variously jumped on the band wagon or nodded them through and, as usual, the rest of the country is totally ignorant.

FannyCann

That is both shocking, yet unsurprising. It's the ability of a niche lobby to impose its views on a recalcitrant, but helpless majority. One consequence of this is shrinking confidence in democracy because this is by definition, anti democratic.

I am with you Antibles on indigenous communities.

I don’t want to put down or disrespect or discriminate against anyone. I want to be friendly and welcoming to all who live here but we indigenous British peoples ought to be able to recognise and celebrate our cultures and draw strength from them which might give us the confidence and ease to be more welcoming of others, recognise the value in other cultures and see our shared humanity.

Maybe... it is tricky though, a very sensitive area. Perhaps it is too much of a minefield.

I can’t help but think that rootedness and knowing (and valuing) where you come from can lead to a more healthy psychology and healthier societies.

@JellySlice

It's a perfect storm created by the combination of two conflicting urges: community and control.

On the one side is the urge to be part of a community, to be kind and inclusive - whether this is a genuine altruistic urge or the need to be seen to be altruistic - for the perceived greater good of the community.

On the other side is the urge to be in control. Again, whether altruistically because of a genuine belief that you know what is best, or for personal satisfaction at being in control.

Gender ideology combines the two in such a way that people effectively offer up their altruism (genuine or not) to those who wish to control (altruistic or not).

I have a theory that when the community is less organic (more forced by theory than humans naturally being or coming together) and mediated very much through tech rather than real world interactions then the control is necessary because it is not naturally cohesive.

Also with queer theory dismantling the meanings of words and existing societal structures, and our human tendency to want to make sense of things and have consistency the only option is to be authoritarian and controlling. The “community” would otherwise dissipate.

Antibels
"I know I risk being labelled whenever I post about this, but so much of the current political agenda seems to be around blending everyone and by making indigenous white people ashamed of their culture and communities which is another way of fracturing and weakening them. Globalisation and open borders is involved."

I'm not sure it's about blending everyone. I think it's more about dividing everyone by labelling people, identifying with a group and looking at the world through that lens. Identity politics is pernicious.

However, I do agree with you about how it's trying to make white people ashamed of themselves and make them feel guilty. I don't see why white people should guilty for what people did 100/200 years ago. Why they should apologise for their own accident of birth. Why people should look at their unconscious bias when other people don't have to. Racism and prejudice is not a one way street. (I say this as a non-white btw)

No one is talking about the white working class. All the major political parties have left them behind. They are the ones who are suffering as the political parties try to garner support from other groups.

Really interesting thread will read properly later.
This jarred a bit though : we indigenous British peoplesand celebrating "indigenous British culture"
What do you mean indigenous? How long does your family have to live here to become British? Or do you mean white?
My family were immigrants, I am British and very much part of my very British community.

The white working class is not one big homogeneous blob. Generally, working people of all hues want the same things. Safe communities, good schools and jobs.