Im concerned my DS (24) has gotten into Red Pill/MGTOW stuff

[CastleOfCary]

Hello, I’m not really sure if this is the right forum to post this in , but out of all the ones on mumsnet, it seems the most relevant.

So my son has a good social life, and since obtaining a bachelors degree took on a role with the Royal Marines, which he is really enjoying as a career. He’s also very into art (drawing, painting etc) which I must admit, he is very skilled at.

Last week he came home for a visit (first time he was on action since the whole lockdown lark was going on), and whilst conversing with him, I dropped into the conversation asking if he was seeing anyone. The response concerned me.

He started talking about how “marriage was a dead institution, and I am not jumping onto that dying trend.” Trying to keep an open mind I then asked why, to which he quoted a bunch of different divorce stats, and talked about other things like child support, biased divorce settlements in court and how he believes it’s outrageous this stuff happens etc.

He’s not particularly the “incel” type you might envision when it comes to this type of stuff, he’s a tall, handsome fella with blond hair and blue eyes, is in great shape and his life is fairly well together too.

However, I think part of this may be him coming from a place of hurt, and that could be how he got sucked into this philosophy the MGTOW type people have surrounding relationships, marriages etc. He had a girlfriend of three years who happened to have two affairs whilst in the relationship he didn’t find out about. She also happened to be very abusive too, and all of this is how I think he may have got sucked into this stuff.

Ever since this he’s refused to get involved in dating/relationships since. When he came back to visit last week, an old friend of his, a pretty blonde girl asked him out on a coffee date to which he declined “no thanks”. He seems hell bent on staying out of relationships and even just going out on dates forever at this point. How can I approach this situation, and perhaps try to get him out of this toxic mindset he might be in? Thanks

OP, it sounds like the ideas are coming from you a bit. Most men in the U.K. pay no child maintenance so divorce is not skewed in favour of women or children. The starting point for assets is 50:50 with a preference for clean break divorce.

I also think the blonde thing is odd. The phrase is tall, dark and handsome. There are very few blonde Hollywood male stars. Part of the red pill is that women prefer black men so the blonde thing makes no sense.

As for MGTOW, fine if they actually do it. The ones on YouTube seem completely obsessed with women, which is the opposite of the supposed preferences of their movement.

For fucks sake stop trying to make the OPs description about her son into something it isn’t. Stop getting hung up on ridiculous details that have nothing to do with what OP was asking.

I’m getting bored to fuck of people trying to point out racism on mumsnet when it’s plainly obviously not racism. This is why when we try and tell people that we have encountered racism no one gives a shit because a) they won’t believe its serious and b) they are sick of hearing it.

Sorry for the detail.

It’s not about racism. Women generally have a preference for dark haired men. It is weird to make out your son has loads going for him because he’s blonde and blue eyed. It’s like saying my son has loads going for him he’s five foot two.

Great thread this one.

More laughs per post than normal.

Sorry for the detail.

Yeah, could you be more general in future?

I'd never heard of red pill/ MGTOW before and have just googled it. I would also be worried if my son was getting drawn in to this ideology. It's quite scary how much hatred there is for women.

I agree with a PP who said to challenge any misogynistic talk and remind him that he does have real women in his life who he loves and who love him, who deserve his respect.

@CrossPorpoises “would everyone in your family be ok with your son being gay?” - I don’t know why you feel the need to ask that, but yes we would.

@TreestumpsAndTrampolines if it I didn’t think it was “more” than that I wouldn’t have bothered making this thread.

@CatsFantastic I think people are taking this “racism” lark a little far here. I think people are actually trying to find something to pick at when there is nothing there. Like I didn’t sit and plan out what I was going to write, I just typed it up and quickly glanced over it and that was that.

@FluffyPJs I will do. Thanks for the advice.

Give him time, he’s clearly been hurt. Let him be young and single and as another poster has said he may well change his tune down the road.
I’m in my 40s, I travelled the world and had adventures until my late 30s, early 40s when I settled down and started a family. This will naturally happen at different times for different people (if at all). It can’t be forced or planned for.

The only people who have mentioned racism are the OP and CatsFantastic. You are imagining things.

Blondes being considered ugly by redpillers isn’t anything to do with race. It just puts them on the low status men list like men with weak chins, short men etc and makes them more likely to be incels.

Not wanting to date really isn’t a problem and is completely normal.

It’s being radicalised online that is the problem.

He's only 24 and nothing he's said is untrue. Most relationships don't last and he's obviously still hurt from his last.

I don't know what his appearance has to do with any of it.

Some posters are missing the point. MGTOW/red pillers are not just men choosing to be single or childless or both.

It is a community of toxic masculinity and hard line misogyny. They are a really scary group who find their commonality in low self esteem and blaming women for their perceived slights. At the same time the incel side of things simultaneously display a pretty deep hatred of women as well as a preoccupation with women as sexual objects.

I would be having stern words about the realities of life if I ever caught a whiff of those words in my house.

It’s also a self fulfilling prophecy because if your harbour these kinds of beliefs you are extremely likely to end up being an abuser in a relationship and find yourself being looked at very negatively in divorce proceedings.

Thanks @CloudyVanilla I’d missed this. I absolutely agree that I’d be wanting to crush any mysogeny voiced in my house.

No problem @LittleTiger007 then are relatively new and also not mainstream so lots haven't heard of them :)

They are a scary bunch though who can suck in other misguided young men. The irony is they bang on about women being horrible to them but they are basically an echo chamber of negativity towards each other, especially the incels where they spend 50 percent of the time hating on women and the rest telling each other how they are all too ugly and pathetic to get a woman. I do feel sorry but I can't sympathise with misogyny

Thank you Cloudy! Yes exactly that. That’s the worrying thing. Being single - fine, deciding you’re single because you believe the incel crowd about women is not fine at all

How very sad. It sounds like a breeding ground for some potentially terrible and antisocial people. I can understand why the OP is worried. You can only give a more balanced differing opinion and within your own walls refuse to countenance misogyny.

I think lots of posters are missing the concern about the OPs son talking about red pills/ MGTOW - google it and then see if you want to tell the OP it's nothing to worry about

he got sucked into this philosophy the MGTOW type people have surrounding relationships, marriages etc

The OP doesn't actually say he actively reads and posts or believes in all of that, just going on the above part of the post.

The theory of MGTOW is not as bad as the reality of MGTOW.

Can you not talk to him and find out what his fears are?

I found the moment I stopped searching for a relationship with a man the more I got on with men in general.

It’s not necessarily a bad thing but as long as he doesn’t hate women.

@Stripesgalore I know a dude in real life at work who would be considered “conventionally” attractive by societal standards (ie tall, broad shoulders, chiseled jawline etc) who refers to himself as an “incel”. Which doesn’t really make sense to me as I thought incel meant “involuntarily celibate” (ie you don’t want to be celibate but you are because you feels looks or something are holding you back).

Perhaps he's just stupid?