Discussion yesterday on TalkRadio between LGB Alliance and Benjamin Butterworth

[EdgeOfACoin]

I didn't see a thread on this yesterday! Discussion on Ian Collins' show regarding the BMA.

Good to hear Beverley Jackson from LGB Alliance challenging Butterworth's use of suicide statistics.

Bev was great but one thing I do notice is that the women often seem far more nervous than the men and I think this tends to detract from what they’re saying. BB is aggressive and interrupts, rude and unpleasant but it means his voice is heard. Piers Morgan matches him for aggression but I think that’s what is needed.

Every show with a trans advocate should have Posie on . She should have been on GMB in stead of Galloway.

Donkeyskin makes an important point regarding the argument that trans people struggling with dysphoria need legal recognition immediately or else they will commit suicide.

I think it is always worth pointing out two facts:
One, that It is only a minority of trans identifying adults who have dysphoria and two, that it is inappropriate to treat a serious mental health problem with a legal measure.

I don't think Bev came across as nervous. Agression doesn't always = confidence.

@ArabellaScott

Why can nobody say the word 'lesbian'?

I heard someone on radio4 describe a lesbian as a "gay woman" instead.

Is that a thing now?

They are scared of the international league of powerful lesbians ( or whatever it’s called these days ) 😬

Ah, Voldemort Lesbianism. I see.

I just noticed 'gays and bisexuals' from BB, and 'gay woman', twice, from the interviewer. Neither of them seemed able to use the word 'lesbian'.

So Benjamin just admitted that he wouldnt date a transman because they aren't masculine?

But he claimed to be a black quickly enough to beat an actual black person to a student union (paid) post ...

Benjamin likes 'masculine physicality', was that the phrase? Very retro.

I've just watched the YouTube footage of that. My god that journalist is an annoying baby. No respect for Ms Jackson is a founder of Gay liberation, and is one of the people who made it possible for BenButter to be the obnoxiously pious gay man he is.

@Glinner 's interview with Ms Jackson and Ms Harris is superb. I want these women to be my best friends (except I'm a vanilla straight woman). They are so ethical, honourable, and straightforward, logical 7 sensible. The best!

Lesbian - now genuinely turning into the love that dare not speak it's name.

It's mad, really, I did it myself the other day at work - came out to a colleague using the words 'well, I'm gay so..' and I was so cross with myself for not saying lesbian.

Do you feel there's pressure to avoid the word, Floral?

I think it'd be really interesting to commission some research/surveys into language use and public perceptions of certain words.

I don't know about pressure so much as a weird fear thing due to the word not being used much. I mean, I haven't been used to coming out publicly for many years now, so it's quite a scary thing to do after 20 odd years of heterosexual marriage and in my 40's, so I don't have a massive amount of confidence to begin with, and gay feels slightly safer than lesbian. I'm not sure why, but I wasn't happy with my choice there. Felt like a halfway house.

Oh Floral Don’t beat yourself up. We all need to go easy on ourselves. And with the venom and hatred often attached to “lesbian” as opposed to “ gay” it’s understandable.

Look on the bright side, at least you didn't feel compelled to say 'queer'.

Floral, to go with the bunting. Must be a big adjustment.

I think it'd be really interesting to commission some research/surveys into language use and public perceptions of certain words.

I think the two big words that need addressing are "sex" and "gender".

Yes, absolutely, Cross. Maybe throw in 'woman' and 'man', too.

Too right, Arabella.

Nowhere in these arguments does anyone get to the nub of the issue, which is that no one should have the 'right' to be legally recognised as a sex which they are not.

Strictly speaking, in the UK they do (with some exceptions) because of the Gender Recognition Act 2004 which was a result of Goodwin & I v United Kingdom [2002].

It was judged that the need to disclose sex on a birth certificate is in contravention of Article 8 of the Human Rights Act, the right to respect for your private and family life.

However, the right not to disclose sex has somehow morphed into the right to have identity recognised.