News from the Changing Room

[FairytaleofBykerGrove]

Just a bit of good news. A lot of you gave me great advice earlier in the year when my daughter was told there would be a male pupil who ‘is a girl’ in her communal changing room for swimming, just before lockdown.

Today I had a long meeting with the head teacher who listened patiently to all my concerns, wrote them down and then asked me if I would contribute to a school policy, to think about what it should include and to get back to her. She said she will bring in someone with an opposing view and see if we can find middle ground.

She also said I mentioned things regarding swimming that she hadn’t considered, and that it seemed likely that a new arrangement would have to be made. Overall I feel it was a very positive meeting. So thanks again to all who contributed and helped me clarify my thoughts on the matter.

Well done! This kind of action is the rubber hitting the road, really.

well done Fairy! That's brilliant

Fantastic work! It must have been nerve wracking and intimidating, but you did it.

Well done, but I would be concerned who the "someone with an opposing view" is, and I would ask for advance notice as to which group they are representing.

That way, you can go prepared. The other person may well arrive with questionable self harm and suicide figures, incorrect legal advice etc.

Also, I would refuse to get into a discussion if the other person is the parent of the child involved. This is not personal. You are not objecting to this child, or suggesting that this child will do anything harmful on purpose, it's the policy in general you want looked at.

Well done yes agree, be prepared to refute dodgy stats.

Well done!

Well done. Many people do not consider the full implications. I bet the opposing view will not have much substance.

They might wheel in Jelly Baby Jan from Mermaids or similar.

Well done 🌟

Why would they need someone with an opposing view? It’s about safeguarding. No-one should have an opposing view about that.

Am I unusual in thinking it odd that schools (apparently) get to make these decisions ad hoc and on the hoof as it were?

As opposed to there being an actual law that they'd be breaking if they didn't follow the rules like all other schools were...

This can't be best practice.

Schools do have to work to the Children Act and the Equality Act 2010, as well as fulfilling their public sector equality duties.

But many have been Stonewalled, so they have been misled about what these laws mean in practice in a school setting.

I have personally been told by someone working for the Sex Education Forum, a charity which advises schools on RSE, that lining infant children up to go home with boys in one line and girls in another would be “problematic”.

She had never heard of Mermaids. I gave her the Transgender Trend website. I expect the other person will be another parent or a teacher.

I sought legal advice last month and was told there was no legal right to a single sex space (I am in Ireland). A lawyer would have to argue that the arrangements were “objectively justifiable” or not. The swimming pool themselves allow people to choose their own changing room. I believe there could be grounds for a legal objection but I do not have the time/strength/money to pursue this.

The opposing view is (I assume) that having a gender identity is equal to/more important than having a sexed body.

Ultimately I have made her think about the girls, which was my intention. I also criticized the ‘be kind’ motto constantly pumped out to the children and she listened to that too, and said she understood.

She seemed reluctant to put a policy in place. I said I thought they ought to have one.

Good on you, fairytale! Proper, direct action to uphold girls privacy and dignity.

Bloody hell, you're in Ireland. You're probably screwed so. Did you not realise that self-id has been operating in Ireland for years without a single problem, not one [sarcastic]

Your only hope is to find out how the parents of the other girls think, and demand a changing room for the group of girls that don't want to share with a boy. How old are they by the way?

If it's a block of just a few weeks swimming like many schools do, I would pull my daughter out.

I also think you need to stress the importance of this because soon they will have to make decisions about school trips or going to the Gaeltacht. In fact, I wonder what the policy is on "trans" kids and the Gaeltacht? They might have a few problems getting Ban an Ti to accept boys in girls' houses - that's if they tell them of course.

Well done, please keep us informed of the outcome

Great work and these are the sort of challenges that are indeed the rubber of the road we walk upon. And what a long old road it will be.

Excellent work. Do let us know how it goes.

The holder of the opposing view should be relevant, as in, either a safeguarding expert or have some experience of such matters. If it was the parent of the pupil it would be dreadful idea to expect you to effectively argue your points against the parent of this particular child. I imagine it will be a teacher or parent who has an alternate view rather than directly opposing. Maybe even someone from the swimming pool? Who knows.

Very interesting point from the legal perspective too and ultimately just great you raised this and the HT listened and took it seriously.

If you don't win, send some dads in dresses into the changing room at swimming time and wait for the shite to hit thefan

Great work.

Would you mind saying - in general terms obviously - which aspects the head teacher hadn’t previously considered that you brought to her attention? Just thinking it might be useful to know as other HT might similarly not considered them so it would help when going in to be fully prepared...

Good luck with the meeting and 🤞 that it’s not the other child’s parent...

(Not all the way in, obviously).

Well done OP, that's great news. I hope the policy meeting goes well and I'd be very interested in how there could be an opposing view to safeguarding, as others have mentioned. You should bring it back to safeguarding. Every. Time. Discussion. Veers.

I'm sure you've already done so but Safe Schools Alliance could be a useful resource to check out, they may even be able to give you some specific advice by email?

But they could go in wearing blindfolds - because they could be self identifying trans labels visually impaired parents.

Transabled of course 🙄 ( I hate my autocorrect)

I'm willing to bet that while the school is using this public pool, no other customers are allowed in. The Head Teacher might want to consider why that is.

And whether, if she had no problem with adults in general being able to use the changing rooms at the same time as the kids, whether that would extend to adult women in the male changing rooms with the boys, and adult males in the female changing room with the girls.

And if, as I suspect, she would be absolutely horrified by the idea, why that scenario is different to the OP's daughter's situation?