Scotland's Gyms and Pools

[Igneococcus]

They just aren't non--bninary and trans inclusive enough:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/4bd89c06-f543-11ea-a6c6-cfdce9efa370?shareToken=1740e1396c60bf9da462897834b50726

Well - I also hate looking in mirrors because of the pressures of being a woman and not having an absolutely perfect body. Nobody seems to care about that though.

How much time was spent on discussing the concerns that women might have about having transwomen in changing rooms. I have yet to hear a woman say that they would feel fine about it so long as the transwoman was wearing lipstick.

Jesus wept.

It has been rumoured the Sunday Times was going for the ‘woke’ market. Looks like it’s true. The comments are sane thank goodness. Thanks for the share OP.

Gyms can install a separate 3rd space changing room for transgender clients, which would allow their participation without excluding the women who want to use the gym.
Women should not sacrifice their privacy, safety, dignity and right to single sex spaces in order to appease a tiny minority. Allowing all men free access to female changing rooms on demand, as long as they claim to identify as women, is a flashers’ and voyeurs charter. And which teenage boy wouldn’t claim to be trans, if it gets him in to see naked women?

The comments under that article are better than the article

The comments are a much better read than the article!

I'm struggling to visualise/understand wearing "loose clothing" in the swimming pool. What sort of clothing would that be? How voluminous and what sort of material? A baggy T shirt clings to the body when wet. More yards of material would seriously impede swimming and could even entangle other swimmers.

Snap AlsoNotAGirl!

Thank you for posting OP. I keep thinking I want to start buying the Times and then they go all Woke. Or is it only Woke on Sundays?

It looks like Saturday may be the day to get it, for Janice Turner’s excellent writing.

The comments are much better than the article. I'm reminded that women have been excluded from participating in sports because of no toilets/single sex changing rooms/social expectations/restrictive clothing. I take sport and fitness for granted in a way that wasn't available to my grandmother, great grandmother etc.

I don't read these articles as supportive. It's like they publish them for their readers to see what is going on and the comments are always more informative than the article itself.
Wearing baggy clothes in a pool would draw a lot more attention than just wearing a swimsuit.

I never thought I'd say this but I go almost straight to Neil Oliver's comments in the ST these days. Today's is about getting his family tested for Covid, but he has written a comment fully supportive of JKR and last week was a good comment on how the news are reported now.

I agree, Igneo. I initially thought - what a ridiculously unquestioning article - and then I decided that it was actually a passive-aggressive master stroke to finish the piece with the non-binary academics complaining that the toilets in their venue were likely to have impacted the quality of their discussions.

I am on a gratitude roll this morning so I would like to thank the academics at Edinburgh University for doing this work and The Times for reporting on it.

MORE PLEASE

Every little helps.

Yes, they let them make themselves look ridiculous, no effort needed from the ST.
I sniggered reading that quote.

I hate changing rooms - no, I don’t feel brilliant changing my flabby area next to beautiful 20 somethings with amazing bodies. So bloody what?

But I’m a grown up and get on with it.

Also interesting to see in the comments the repeated points that other specific needs would benefit from equal input, focus and support: I'd be interested in an assessment of how functionally disabled friendly the changing facilities are, and the many adaptations that would support neurodiverse users for example. And how friendly and accommodating to women of faiths and cultures that lead to specific needs around bodily privacy and sex segregation? How trauma informed?

The answer really is for additional and wider choice of spaces in all changing facilities to better fit the valued needs of all users.

I wonder how quickly the comments will be deleted.

The Times and Sunday Times pride themselves on presenting both sides, so you will read woke articles. The comments tell the Times what it's readers think. Only an absolute plonker of a publisher would decide they wanted to get rid of their core readers.

The Times already knows what happens to MSM who disregard they're readers - they watch the Guardian with interest

They deleted a huge number of the comments on Janice Turner's article yesterday.
I wish I had C&P it earlier.
I wanted to send it to a couple of people who couldn't access it.
The comments are always so informative and thought provoking.

This infuriates me because for as long as I can remember, many many girls and women have found gyms and swimming pools to be uncomfortable places. I loved swimming as a child and as soon as my body changed, I did everything I possibly could to avoid going to the pool because people (mostly male, but sometimes female) would comment. School PE was a particular source of torture. I know I wasn't alone, loads of my friends were the same. And I have never known my mother or older sisters to go swimming in their entire lives.

But no one really ever gives a crap about how women feel intimidated. And now the gender identity lobby, with the apparent support of the government, are keen to pressure even more women into avoiding public swimming pools and gyms.

I was reminded of how the Victorians made curtain-like covers for piano legs

@TheFleegleHasLanded

It has been rumoured the Sunday Times was going for the ‘woke’ market. Looks like it’s true. The comments are sane thank goodness. Thanks for the share OP.

How do you come to that conclusion? The Times is simply reporting it neutrally with a straight face.

@endofthelinefinally

I wonder how quickly the comments will be deleted.

Times does not generally delete comments unless truly offensive

Surely loose fitting clothes are not allowed in pools because it's a safety hazard? As in it increases the risk of someone drowning.

Participants raised concern that open-plan changing rooms can trigger “gender policing”, especially in women-only facilities where non-binary and trans women feel pressured to look feminine, such as wearing form-fitting sports clothing or make-up to “look like they belong” and “avoid harassment”.

This is basically an argument for letting male presenting men into women only spaces and criminalising women that object.

Surely loose fitting clothes are not allowed in pools because it's a safety hazard? As in it increases the risk of someone drowning.

Well, if that happens, we can be sure that the blame will be placed squarely at the feet of those nasty terfs. It will be framed as women having forced these poor people into wearing loose clothing and therefore having blood on their hands.