Dead Trans Girl's Sperm Will Be Stored

[Collidascope]

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/2901fea0-f3b5-11ea-aeed-ec95eac61729?shareToken=e475e57d5e0b12c1f4a19deb8fc0a46a

Oof. I feel for the mother, she must be distraught. I don't however think that gives her the right to try and bring a child into the world whose father is dead at the point of conception and who will be the product of this dead father and "a donor and a surrogate."

Why was the sperm frozen ? Was this child undergoing hormonal treatment ?

Awful case. And no. Parents do not have the right to their child’s fertility. The trans issue is irrelevant (although it may have been the reason for the freezng which is a problem in itself)

The freezing was because of the trans.

Apparently the text messages have been published which state the wishes but I can't find them.

From what I've seen, the child wanted her sperm frozen so that when they had gender reassignment at age 18, they could have a biological child.

The mum now wants the sperm so she can use a donor and surrogate and "fulfil her daughter's wishes". I don't think I agree as the wishes were to be a parent of their own biological child. Not simple to give the mother a grandchild.

But you never know, the text messages may suggest otherwise.

I think it would be very unkind to the child.

I feel very sorry for the mother's loss but I don't think she should be doing what she's trying to do. Grandchild are not a right.

I wonder what sort of unethical organisation agrees to freeze the sperm of a child on the basis that they might want to do something which would damage their fertility later.

So, so wrong.

The child was 14 when they died. I think this sets a really dangerous precedent. The lack of possible future grandchildren is something every parent who loses a child has to come to terms with. Who is to say whether once that child had become an adult they would want children for starters. The trans element is irrelevant other than it means sperm has been harvested from a child and frozen.

This has the makings of disaster written all over it in so many ways. Like when people clone their dogs and find out that the new puppy is still different and they are terribly disappointed with it. You can't swim in the same river water twice, grandma.

I could march my son up to the sperm bank in a couple of years time to freeze his sperm in case he died unexpectedly. Same thing.

I would have thought the HFEA or whatever it’s called now would have something to say about a child’s sperm being stored in this way.

This whole case is a perfect example of when grief makes you behave completely irrationally. There are lots of scenarios when grandparents step in to parent the GCs, when the parents aren't able to, and a lot of the time they do an amazing job. But who in their right mind brings a child into this world with the intention of having it raised by grandparents and when the parents basically don't exist?

So is this now a thing - that - god forbid - anything happens to your teen (boy or girl) the doctors can just harvest sperm/eggs in case the parents want to have a baby?

I remember a few years back court cases where the husband has been in a coma and it was a right battle to ‘prove’ that they would have gone on to have kids etc. But this case I’d very different.

This is not for the benefit of any child who may be born.

@Mollscroll

I wonder what sort of unethical organisation agrees to freeze the sperm of a child on the basis that they might want to do something which would damage their fertility later.

Exactly.

This is so ethically wrong on every level. Cases like this where they want to produce a new human from a dead parent set a very dangerous precedent.

the wishes were to be a parent of their own biological child. Not simple to give the mother a grandchild.

This is the crux of it.
Well, the crux of it is that producing a child in this circumstance (no parents etc) would not be in the best interests of that child.

It's terrible what had happened to that mother and child. I would be amazed if the woman got anywhere with her case. But there was a similar one in California (parents requested it, there was no spouse)

www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-west-point-cadet-sperm-peter-zhu-20190305-story.html

The previous thread on this was deleted, btw. I don't think focusing on the trans element is particularly useful - although there aren't many situations where gametes are frozen without illness etc where death and the child's wishes may be more concretely discussed.

This is so wrong! Even a married couple in the middle of ivf wouldn't necessarily be able to proceed with frozen so erm if the husband died.

A child with no partner has absolutely no grounds to claim the right to procreate after death with a surrogate.

I'm not sure, in the cold light of day, the parents will not go through with this, but it is their choice, even if the judgement goes against them. This is very soon after a death of a 14 year old. They will be grief stricken.

They have only asked for time to decide what to do. The NHS have agreed to give them that time until 30 November.

I would not offer an opinion, I have not had a child die

I couldn't ever imagine what it would be like to lose a child wether that child be under 18 or someone's adult child but as their parent they do not have the right to their passed away child's genetic material to produce a grandchild for themselves.It's very selfish and has horrendous moral implications;imagine the psychological and emotional affect on the child produced that way.

This is madness. It shouldn't be given time or consideration.

Walk into any family court and you'll be told that the welfare of the child is paramount. Where are the best interests of the child which currently doesn't and need not exist being served by creating a 'designer baby' so that the grandparent/s can attempt to uphold the whims of a young teenager? Or maybe even to attempt to replace their deceased child?

If this goes ahead can you imagine the precedent it will set? Would it be acceptable for a court to allow this if a deceased donor had lost their life to a genetically related condition?

There are considerably more questions than answers and the cause appears to be the dredging up of the wants and whims of a 14 year old kid, now forever set in stone from the parent's pov because that kid never made it to adulthood. It's desperately sad for the kid's family but no way should their grief be the driver in a quest to re-create what they've lost or fulfill the wishes of an already confused youngster, made at an age where so many grow up to completely change their minds about their plans for the future.

Sorry, I did use paragraphs. I have no clue where they have gone!

So what about all the children and young adults who have had sperm/eggs frozen before cancer treatment? If they, sadly, die, do their parents have a right to make their own grandchildren?

After all, it could be argued that by having their gametes frozen they are expressing a wish to be parents at some stage.

Sorry, I meant to add that while I feel nothing but sympathy for the individual parents who are coping with the death of their child, my greater concern is the legal precedent that might be set.

Using a surrogacy arrangement to create a baby with no parents in his or her life would plainly be wrong on multiple levels and I'd hope a court would see that immediately.

It must be very painful for the parents of the child who died to think of the sperm sample being destroyed. Perhaps they might decide to do something different with it, like donate it to a single woman or a lesbian couple in the basis they would play a role as grandparents.

No grandparents have ‘the right’ to a child. Consider the potential child. Who is this really for?

The trans thing is a red herring here, it really doesnt matter materially, what matters is should a parent use the eggs or sperm of their dead child to bring another child into the world if that was the express of their child?

Personally I think not and I do think this is a way of the mother chanelling her grief but Ive not had a child die sooooo. I certainly wouldnt want to be the judge!

That poor child, dying so young. I feel for their parents, it must be a terrible blow.

Grief can make people do irrational things, but this would be so wrong if it happened. I'd have said the same if the child was born female and had frozen eggs.

I hope the family finds peace and healing in a more healthy way.

I feel hugely sorry for the mother and all six siblings of this poor teenager who was horribly let down if they were told by trusted adults that they could become a mum.

However, if I was the mother of a child who died suddenly and in circumstances that are apparently still not understood, I would hope that my main priority would be finding out why the child died and if the experimental drugs given to the child were a factor.

This reminds me of the poor parents of Jayden Lowe who paid the Webberleys for drugs for their child. It wasn't until after the inquest that they realised that the hormone treatments were experimental and came with a huge array of known and potentially fatal side effects.

Our society is failing children and their parents.

I suspect this is less to do with the mother wanting a grandchild from her deceased child's sperm and more to do with an attempt to recreate her child (you could use the word clone).

Her pain must be unimaginable, but this is incredibly misguided.