Any GC politicians to vote for in New Zealand?

[quixote9]

I'm what's politely called a new New Zealander. I'm having difficulties figuring out politicians' stands on just about anything. Slogans aplenty on the hustings (Back Your Future! Let's Keep Moving! and similar meaningful stuff), but not many easily digestible summaries of where they stand on things. (No, I haven't plowed through platforms or position papers. Too lazy.)

I get the general impression our Prime Minister, who's certainly doing a way better job than National ever would, is pretty much smoothly woke when it comes to anything feminist. Is that more or less true of all the non-conservative politicos here?

speakupforwomen.nz is an excellent organization doing good work, but they're explicitly non-partisan, so it seems they can't provide that information.

Anyway, are there people here who know a bit about NZ politicians and could share?

They're either woke (especially the Greens) or silent, with the exception of the misogynistic New Conservative party. Did you see Golriz Gharaman's post on Twitter today?

Eketahuna just read Golriz Gharaman's posts on Twitter - sigh. It was the Green Party of course who tried to slip Self ID through Parliament without proper consultation from affected groups, i.e. women. Tracey Martin was the Minister who eventually halted the proposed legislation, but her party NZ First may not reach the 5% needed to return MPs in the next Parliament. ACT leader David Seymour supports free speech, and helped to find a meeting venue for Speak Up for Women when Massey University (Wellington campus) cravenly capitulated to bullying from some of their students, but whether he would speak against Self ID legislation if he gets back after the election I don't know. His party is not one I would personally vote for, but in helping SUFW he did the right thing.

Frankly I doubt whether any MP would speak against Self ID because they know that they would immediately be attacked by the likes of Jan Logie, Marama Davidson, Golriz Gharaman, Chloe Swarbrick and Louisa Wall (Green and Labour MPs).

As for the PM, her mantra is 'be kind' which is fine as far as it goes, but what if being 'kind' to one (small) group in society means stripping rights away from half of your population?

The medical profession in NZ seems to be completely on board with the whole trans ideology (see www.health.govt.nz/our-work/preventative-health-wellness/delivering-health-services-transgender-people). Of course transgendered people will have particular health needs given the changes they have made to their bodies through drugs and surgery, but the use of language like 'sex assigned at birth' from health professionals is depressing.

So quixote9 I don't believe there are any NZ politicians who will defend women's rights against aggressive transactivists now or in the future, but it would be nice to be proved wrong.

I’ve been wondering the same thing as this is my first time voting since becoming aware of the woke ideology. I made a submission for the recent stats nz consultation but haven’t got far digging into parties’ views so appreciate the names and comments above.

@quixote9

I'm what's politely called a new New Zealander. I'm having difficulties figuring out politicians' stands on just about anything. Slogans aplenty on the hustings (Back Your Future! Let's Keep Moving! and similar meaningful stuff), but not many easily digestible summaries of where they stand on things. (No, I haven't plowed through platforms or position papers. Too lazy.)

I get the general impression our Prime Minister, who's certainly doing a way better job than National ever would, is pretty much smoothly woke when it comes to anything feminist. Is that more or less true of all the non-conservative politicos here?

speakupforwomen.nz is an excellent organization doing good work, but they're explicitly non-partisan, so it seems they can't provide that information.

Anyway, are there people here who know a bit about NZ politicians and could share?

What would you impolitely be called? Slogans are just that, Quixote. Slogans on the hustings/billboards etc are not designed to reveal policies. If you want to know where parties stand on things but are "too lazy" to visit their websites or do some research, you can't be helped really.

"What would you impolitely be called?"

bloody Aussie?

And you're wrong. I can be helped! Some of the commenters here have helped a lot.

Sad to hear about the Greens. Good to know that NZ1st & ACT have made at least token gestures. But, on the whole, it looks like realistic voting is going to mean forgetting about women's rights (so what else is new?) and just trying to find the least damaging choices which will make it possible to keep fighting.

So, so, so tired of women always being so far to the back we fall right off and disappear.

SueblueNZ there’s no need to be so bloody rude!

Sarah Dowie (National retiring) asked questions in parliament about self ID’s impact provision of women's lawful sex based services.

David Seymour is very responsive to GC’s being denied platforms/being accused of hate speech but I think it is more of a free speech issue for him.

Tracey Martin announced the halt of Self ID but I remember her as being upset by it and thought it was reasonably clear she had been told to stop because it was becoming such a can of worms. She was absolutely unwilling to listen to GC concerns in the lead up to it (they were an extreme - protecting trans youth was her goal).

Oh yeah it’s dire in NZ, not a lot of options, same as UK. I would write to your local candidates and ask them specific questions. The Greens are a bit like the Lib Dem’s here in that they’re a lost cause and don’t seem to be doing well in the polls so will be largely irrelevant soon. Marama Davidson is a traitor to her own people, never liked her.
I think direct questions asking if they support self ID might help but it would likely mean you’re left with National. I personally put women’s rights first so wouldn’t vote if their wasn’t an option that did that too. I’m not going to put us to the side ever again, the ‘least worst option’ is what the lazy misogynistic left have been relying on for too long. If you want my vote, you’ll need to stand for women’s rights.

Browsing on the internet before going to bed and found this interview with Jacinda Ardern. It's quite plain that if Labour become the government in October Self ID will get pushed through.

gayexpress.co.nz/2020/06/know-us-by-our-deeds-jacinda-arderns-message-to-the-rainbow-community/

My sister and I wrote to the PM, with copies to Winston Peters, James Shaw and Marama Davidson last year when the issue of Self ID was proposed raising our concerns about the erosion of women's rights. We were very angry at the vitriol thrown at women by Jan Logie et al and we made our feelings known in the letter. We never received an acknowledgment from the PM's office or the other party leaders, which angered us even more!

I've worked hard for the Labour Party for years, and am currently engaged in some interesting historical research for the local party, but honestly I am feeling less and less inclined to vote for anyone next month given the apparent lack of interest in protecting women rights and safety in NZ.

We never received an acknowledgment from the PM's office or the other party leaders, which angered us even more!

That’s really poor. I’ve had letters in response from my uk MP during this pandemic so I’m not sure why they expect kiwis to accept no reply at all to your legitimate concerns.
Winston doesn’t surprise me, he’s only ever cared about himself.

David Seymour was the only mp who replied to my letter.
National is clearly avoiding commenting on the issue because it wants to avoid media /activist claims of transphobia blowing up.

And Labour with Maja Lubeck, Kiri Allen and Louise Wall supports self ID.

The role the NZ media plays in this shouldn’t be underestimated.

Oh yeah I know, the NZ Media control the narrative and stuff in particular have close links that I can’t quite understand... they have lots of pro surrogacy stories too that I’ve questioned them about.

My sister reminded me that we did get a reply from Paula Bennett's office which said that our concerns would be passed on to her. She was the National Party's spokeperson for women at the time, but is now retiring from politics.

Julie Ann Genter (Green Party) Minister for Women declined to comment, saying that that it was a matter for Tracey Martin as Minister for Internal Affairs under which aegis the Bill was being proposed. I suppose she felt she couldn't comment for that reason, but I imagine she would have no objection to Self ID anyway.

The NZ Media does seem reluctant to engage in debate, though Magic Talk (Radio station) has hosted Anni O'Brien for some good discussions on women's sport and the implications of Self ID generally.

John Campbell, a journalist whom I used to admire, did a completely uncritical interview with Laurel Hubbard, in which he praised Hubbard's bravery for transitioning, but avoided any mention of the unfairness of a man competing against women in a sport such as weightlifting, in which men have an obvious advantage.

Katherine Ryan, who hosts a morning show on Radio NZ and is regarded as a respectable journalist interviewed two women on the issue of gender dysphoria in children, and again, uncritically swallowd the whole transgender ideology. Pubery blockers? Nah, perfectly reasonable to give them to young children (just like smarties really). No questioning of the effect of powerful drugs on a young body, or the need for them at all. Language like 'sex assigned at birth' went unchallenged, and all in all it was a disgraceful and unprofessional performance by a supposedly seasoned and critical journalist.

I was going to write a scathing letter to her, but in the end I didn't. I wish I had now, but a kind of weariness takes over after a while.

However if Labour get back in October we shall be lobbying our local MP , the Prime Minister, and the relevant opposition MPs hard on the need to protect women's rights in New Zealand with regard to the implementation of Delf ID.

'Self ID', not 'Delf ID'!

I'll have to start a database of the relevant names and parties. Except that Labour and Greens seem to have all fallen for Self ID, it seems pretty much a matter of the individual politician's leanings.

It bothers me intensely that mostly those willing to speak up for women aren't actually speaking up for women. Their motivation is maintaining traditional genders, feminist motivation is dispensing with genders.

Yet there's that convergence on some practical measures, like maintaining separation in sports for people of obviously different physiques. So the conservatives are right, for once, for all the wrong reasons.

Meanwhile, the misogynist Left is all wrong for the wrong reasons.

Our local MP will probably be National, so maybe will be more willing to listen post-election, but also less able to have influence. {sad]

Yet there's that convergence on some practical measures, like maintaining separation in sports for people of obviously different physiques. So the conservatives are right, for once, for all the wrong reasons.

Meanwhile, the misogynist Left is all wrong for the wrong reasons.

Well exactly quixote9! It's depressing.

My local MP used to be the Minister of Health, and my sister and I fed him a steady diet of articles on the need for caution on transgender issues, particularly with regard to children, to which he was receptive I believe. So we feel hopeful about putting a case against Self ID to him if Labour form a government in October, and re-introduce legislation in the first term of Parliament.

All we can do in NZ is lobby our local MPs and try and make them see that the rights which women possess under the Human Rights Act should not be taken away.
www.justice.govt.nz/about/learn-about-the-justice-system/how-the-justice-system-works/the-basis-for-all-law/the-human-rights-act/

The Human Rights Act 1993 is aimed at giving all people equal opportunities and preventing unfair treatment on the basis of irrelevant personal characteristics.The Human Rights Act covers discrimination on the grounds of: sex, marital status, religious belief, ethical belief, colour, race, ethnic or national origins, disability, age, political opinion, employment status, family status, sexual orientation. Note sex, not gender. Statistics NZ is thinking of replacing sex with the nebulous notion of gender identity, to which I (and I hope many others) strongly objected in my submission to that organisation.

Anyway we have a breathing space in which to marshall calm and reasoned arguments against the possible erosion of women's rights in NZ which is something Tracey Martin gave us, albeit under pressure. Which is good.

Oh yes... that John Campbell interview was SO disappointingly fawny. I used to rate him too.

• David Seymour of ACT was supportive of SUFW and helped them hold a meeting at parliament, Steven Berry has stepped down but was a gay man that got the issues that women have with this.

• Labour is no friend of women, Ardern wants to make sure self-ID comes in and not able to be challenged and several other MPs are strongly pro trans. Unfortunately we have a incompetent government in them, they have one person holding several heavy weight portfolios (health/education as two of them) as the rest are failures which is extremely poor at the present time.

-National has tended be woke too, a lot of the policies such putting men into prisons were put in place under them. That said, there are a couple of MPs that somewhat understand the issue, including my local MP and will be planning to talk to them about these issues.

• NZ First are vile, Tracey Martin is trying to push through sex self-ID by any means possible. I have a OIAed her, she's done a working group which deliberately ignored the Crown Law advice on the sex self-ID that she wants to put through. She is doing that by stealth by changing policy and funnelling through the department of internal affairs.

• Green party are a bunch of virtue signalling idiots.

• New Conservative get it, but have policies that are so awful that no reasonable person would vote for them.

• Maori party, not sure but think they are woke like the Greens.

FYI the human rights commission has interpreted "sex" which is stated in the law to be biological "sex, including pregnancy and childbirth" as "Sex includes pregnancy and childbirth and refers to gender." except that it actually doesn't. Transgender people would have protection under sex protections because it would be illegal to discriminate against a person for not conforming to sex stereotypes for their sex but they have taken it way further and have been treating it as if sex is gender identity.

Thanks for that comprehensive breakdown Reddwolf it's very helpful, particularly the information on the human rights commissions.What disturbs me is that legitimate concerns.raised by women in 2019 on the concept of Self ID were immediately slammed by some MPs as hateful and bigoted speech, with the intent of effectively stopping all discussion. Which it didn't of course, thanks to Speak Up for Women's campaign, which alerted us to to what was happening.

I confess I don't understand Jan Logie's vitriol against anyone who questions Self ID as she is a strong advocate for women, and has worked on bills which protect women from the effects of domestic and sexual violence. She apparently described herself as a 'lefty feminist lesbian' in her maiden speech to Parliament, yet seems to disregard the attacks on lesbians from trans rights activists here and elsewhere. You can't fight for women, yet throw them under the bus the minute men demand to take away their rights to single sex spaces. It seems a curious blind spot in her thinking which is truly puzzling.

That's what I get stunned to speechlessness about, which makes communicating intelligently with MPs difficult. You can't fight for women, yet throw them under the bus the minute men demand to take away their rights.

I'm also pretty sure it wouldn't happen with any group except women. The level of internalized misogyny is so deep, the unquestioned ground from which people men and women start is that women aren't actually human. They're not like real people. That's the only way to achieve that blind spot.

And the difficulty with a blind spot is I have yet to figure out how to talk to someone about it. They simply can't see what you're talking about.

I guess all we can do is keep repeating until the penny drops.

Seriously, you'd vote for National or Act simply because they are gender critical? Ignoring all of their policies eroding social services, tightening access to benefits, etc., which benefit women hugely and transform women's lives directly?? You'd rather embrace neo-liberalism and the discredited "trickle down" effect, whilst these two parties go ahead and destroy our environment, just because they won't let trans people self-ID? And more to the point, you can't be bothered actually looking at the parties' policies and working out which ones strike the right balance?

Jesus wept, this is a sad state of affairs. Someone described politics to me like waiting for a bus: it might not drop you off exactly at your destination, but you take the bus that is going to get you there the closest. If your biggest concern is women's rights, I'd suggest you read the policies for the parties on things that directly impact women, how we fare in our society, how the wage gap is being addressed and how Maaori and Pasifika female voices are being heard. Your options are going to be severely limited if you vote solely based on this criterion - and you should be very aware of the larger implications on women of the parties that are gender critical

Bananice I'd rather not vote at all than vote for National, given the damage the party has done to this country every time they have been the government.I detested John Key, but before that Ruth Richardson and Jenny Shipley sent many famillies spiralling into poverty when they cut benefits and raised the state housing rents at the same time. It was a double whammy which my sister, who was a social worker at the time saw at first hand. And let's not forget the Lange/Douglas government of 1984, which many Labour party members have not forgiven.

I worry about the impact that Self ID might have on women's rights if there are no safeguards in any proposed legislation, but that is one issue among many to think about when it comes to looking at party policies.

If Labour get back in after the October election with a reasonable majority they have a lot of work to do in housing, raising incomes, providing primary affordable health care (which includes dentistry), cleaning up the environment, re-thinking NZ's dependence on mass tourism ... I could go on and on. So I'll give my two ticks to Labour in the hopes that Covid-19 permitting the next Labour government can be as progressive as they promised to be just three years ago.

If your biggest concern is women's rights, I'd suggest you read the policies for the parties on things that directly impact women, how we fare in our society, how the wage gap is being addressed and how Maaori and Pasifika female voices are being heard. Your options are going to be severely limited if you vote solely based on this criterion - and you should be very aware of the larger implications on women of the parties that are gender critical

Why aren’t women allowed to prioritise themselves and their rights? Why is any woman or any Māori or Polynesian automatically meant to vote labour? Why do you think labour is particularly good for women or for Māori? Because it isn’t.

If the words we use to describe ourselves become meaningless and include men, then we can’t advocate for ourselves and our rights. So nothing else labour supposedly do for women will matter, because that word includes men to them.

Labour certainly does nothing for Māori and they, like national, haven’t upheld the treaty and have no intention of doing so. Māori women definitely don’t owe them a vote. The shocking statistics around Māori health don’t improve under labour. Neither does domestic violence, child health and wellbeing or obesity, all those things we top the world in- perhaps we’re only the second fattest developed nation. The unicef report around children released should make every kiwi fucking horrified. Horrified

Your comment was so rude Bananice. Try being less patronising.

So I'll give my two ticks to Labour

Who intend to implement self ID.

@MillyMollyFarmer why do you assume that I’m a Labour voter, or that I’m advocating for those to vote Labour? Quite frankly, Labour has been far less progressive than I’d hoped they would be.

I’m simply saying that if you’re advocating for women, being gender critical in my opinion is far from being the sole criteria for advocating for our rights. I tautoko trans women are women and would rather spend my time and energy reading through policies that bring equity to all marginalised members of our society, and voting accordingly. If you think I’m rude then so be it: I think democracy is a privilege and to have e some flippantly state that they can’t be bothered to read through policies to find out who they should support is infuriating. There are so many tools out there to break things down and help to educate ourselves. And if voting for a gender critical party means that one is aligning with the New Conservatives, then I suggest looking further into what else a party stands for