Any GC politicians to vote for in New Zealand?

[quixote9]

I'm what's politely called a new New Zealander. I'm having difficulties figuring out politicians' stands on just about anything. Slogans aplenty on the hustings (Back Your Future! Let's Keep Moving! and similar meaningful stuff), but not many easily digestible summaries of where they stand on things. (No, I haven't plowed through platforms or position papers. Too lazy.)

I get the general impression our Prime Minister, who's certainly doing a way better job than National ever would, is pretty much smoothly woke when it comes to anything feminist. Is that more or less true of all the non-conservative politicos here?

speakupforwomen.nz is an excellent organization doing good work, but they're explicitly non-partisan, so it seems they can't provide that information.

Anyway, are there people here who know a bit about NZ politicians and could share?

@OtepotiLilliane42

«If Labour get back in after the October election with a reasonable majority they have a lot of work to do in housing, raising incomes, providing primary affordable health care (which includes dentistry), cleaning up the environment, re-thinking NZ's dependence on mass tourism ...»

I completely agree with this - I think there is a lot of work still to be done. I still haven’t determined who I will vote for as there are lots of complex issues to consider, however I certainly hope the next government is progressive

why do you assume that I’m a Labour voter, or that I’m advocating for those to vote Labour?

It’s pretty clear when your focus was to berate for considering to vote for the alternative.

A vote for labour is a vote for self ID and selling out women and girls.

MillyMollyFarmer and Bananice I've twice now accidently deleted replies to your thoughtful posts, so I'm up giving up for the night, except to say that deciding which party to vote for in this election has become increasingly hard. I'm pissed off with Labour and the Greens for failing to understand why women are angry over the ill-considered Self ID legislation, but I won't vote National because I think they will introduce austerity measures which will be devastating for the country. I'll lobby hard against Self ID if it is re-introduced by whoever forms the next government, and continue to support groups like Speak Up for Women who have done such a good job to raise awareness that we might lose hard fought for sex based rights.

I'm following OtepotiLilliane42 and others on this. National is just too atrocious on everything else. Labour and Greens ... pissed off. Exactly.

Still, good to know about individual politicians who haven't been a total loss.

@Bananice

Seriously, you'd vote for National or Act simply because they are gender critical? Ignoring all of their policies eroding social services, tightening access to benefits, etc., which benefit women hugely and transform women's lives directly?? You'd rather embrace neo-liberalism and the discredited "trickle down" effect, whilst these two parties go ahead and destroy our environment, just because they won't let trans people self-ID? And more to the point, you can't be bothered actually looking at the parties' policies and working out which ones strike the right balance?

Jesus wept, this is a sad state of affairs. Someone described politics to me like waiting for a bus: it might not drop you off exactly at your destination, but you take the bus that is going to get you there the closest. If your biggest concern is women's rights, I'd suggest you read the policies for the parties on things that directly impact women, how we fare in our society, how the wage gap is being addressed and how Maaori and Pasifika female voices are being heard. Your options are going to be severely limited if you vote solely based on this criterion - and you should be very aware of the larger implications on women of the parties that are gender critical

Absolutely yes.

Those two parties are the only options where women's rights might be recognised or at least women can get a fair hearing. My local MP is National and somewhat sympathetic. There is zero chance of any woman being heard once Labour, Greens and NZ First push through their plans. The minister for women won't even say the word "woman" that is how bad it is.

Of Ngati Maniapoto descent, have not forgotten Rogernomics and definitely won't vote Labour when they dish out $76 million borrowed cash to the horse racing industry while DHB's in Canterbury are having to cut staff and schools in Porirua are falling apart. They've had three years to make good on their promises and it's all talk, no substance. In fact it's worse, it's inertia and working off wishlists instead of what will benefit the country. It's blatant pork barrelling.

I'm not interested in these vague promises they'll do better dishing out more cash, women are better off being given true opportunities to thrive rather than effectively being removed as a political class because people like Tracey Martin are shoving these changes in through the backdoor. I have confirmation from her that she's going to push it through via whoever is the next internal affairs minister. Labour supports this, as do Greens.

Mana Wahine!

I'm not interested in these vague promises they'll do better dishing out more cash, women are better off being given true opportunities to thrive rather than effectively being removed as a political class because people like Tracey Martin are shoving these changes in through the backdoor. I have confirmation from her that she's going to push it through via whoever is the next internal affairs minister. Labour supports this, as do Greens.

^^ agree with you so much. I have a good memory too, seems some forget. I worry for NZ if labour win again women are truly fucked.

Well here is Tracey Martin’s parting salvo and a clear indication of what will happen under labour. No consultation, no chance to try and stop it. This is just utterly heartbreaking.

I know we all have different priorities and are in different places in our lives but I struggle to see how if being GC is important to you or opposing self id is Important to you, how you can vote for Labour or the Greens? They will bring it in and I think the chances of them expanding the definition of hate speech to include gender identities is extremely high - so you won’t be able to lobby against it -your heartfelt beliefs will be written off as hate speech, and those opposing it as bigots. I’m so utterly depressed by this announcement that I might be catastrophising it but I don’t think so. It’s just awful.

www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12363313

Changethatlockand key for the first time ever I am now seriously considering not voting at all in the October election. I was planning to vote Labour, despite their support of Self ID because I thought they might listen to reason if re-elected, but I now think they will steamroll everything trans related through if given the numbers.

So I don't think that you are catastrophising the situation at all unfortunately which leaves me with no one to vote for.

I am a single issue voter on this too OtepotiLilliane - and I read this below this morning . So it’s quite clear now a vote for Labour is a vote for self ID. And people who vote for Labour are voting for self ID. I have now decided to vote for Act who will at least offer protection of my right to protest this. It’s just awful. www.nzherald.co.nz/local-democracy/news/article.cfm?c_id=1504814&objectid=12364055
[Ardern] said she hoped to see the "completion" of a process to introduce self-identification of gender on birth certificates.

that Labour & Self ID stuff ... /endless screaming/ That is just awful. Once people start down these paths, it just becomes harder and harder to get back on to one that knows women are people. As in, just for instance, pimping is legal here and as far as I can see except for us crazy feminists, not a glimmer of understanding that trading in human beings is NOT a Good Thing. Self ID BS will just add to that.

Off to look at Act. God help us.

quixote9 The ACT Party website

www.act.org.nz/principles
www.act.org.nz/defending_freedom_of_expression

Freedom of expression is essential to a free society and must be promoted, protected and preserved without restriction other than for incitement, criminal nuisance or defamation.

There has been a lot of discussion on 'hate speech' and freedom of expression since the attacks on the Christchurch Mosques last year, which I admit I haven't been following until its relevance to discussion of transgender issues emerged with the proposed Self ID bill.

David Seymour thinks that the Prime Minister is confused as to what hate speech is according to this article, and I'm inclined to agree.

www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1911/S00252/pms-confusion-over-hate-speech-law-deeply-worrying.htm

www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/121922974/hate-speech-law-stalled-until-after-election--no-support-yet-from-nz-first

I don't think that raising legitimate concerns about the implications of Self ID for women's rights could be described in any way as hate speech, and yet that is how it was immediately framed by certain Labour and Green Party MPs when questions were asked of the Select Committee that was overseeing the legislation. It was a good cop out as it meant that they didn't have to actually answer the concerns, which was their duty as MPs to their constituents!

The letter that my sister and I wrote to the Prime Minister last year on Self ID expressed astonishment at the behaviour of those MPs (all women) and asked that she support the rights of women to raise relevant questions of government legislation, but as I posted earlier we received no reply.

I don't agree with most of ACT's policies to be honest, but with regard to the principle of free speech I think they are right. When Simon Bridges was Leader of the National Party he defended freedom of speech on national television, and I don't suppose that view has changed even if the leaders have in the interim. I haven't contacted Judith Collins, the current National Party leader, what her opinions are, but will over the next few days.

www.facebook.com/1NEWSNZ/videos/nz-must-jealously-guard-freedom-of-speech-simon-bridges-says-amid-hate-speech-re/832090310471554/

All in all it's a depressing picture for the future of women's rights in New Zealand when the first instinct of government is to suppress debate by refusing to engage in rational and respectful discourse. It's profoundly undemocratic.

It’s so bloody typical of NZ to leap into this wholeheartedly and take it to its extreme - just as it looks like the rest of the world (well the U.K.) is beginning to think twice and pull back. The lack of consultation over this is astounding and it is so un democratic.

The constant massaging of the message by the media that all opposition is bigoted...that people who express reservations must be ‘educated’ out of their bigotry and/or ignorance. Whether it’s on self ID, redefining homosexuality as same gender attraction, or as you mention quixote not being sex work positive.

The rush to shut down genuine discussion over this as ‘hate speech’ is so worrying. I agree with you completely OtepotiLilliane42 if we cannot even give words to our fears we will be left with no way to fight back - there will be no argument we can make - we will simply be sidestepped and ignored.

I wrote to Tracey Martin - no reply,
Winston Peters (asking if he was discussing Tracey Martin redefining the word ‘woman’ at RSA’s 😂 because I couldn't imagine that it would go over well) - I got a reply saying there would be no reply.
David Seymour - I got two very thoughtful responses. I didn’t agree with everything he said but it was an honest and respectful engagement.
My local National MP - no reply. National are being utterly cowardly on this in my opinion, and are just avoiding the issue. On one hand I can’t blame them because of the toxic accusations that would be thrown at them if they did speak up and on the other hand I despise them for keeping quiet.
TOP are really pro Trans rights.
The Greens are fully on board, Labour is too. Andrew Little has already mentioned changes need to be made to The Hunan Rights Act to add gender discrimination definitions which I think is highly indicative that gender critical concerns will be cast as hate speech.
I’m not sure about about the Maori party.

I just feel so angry about this. I cannot believe how quickly it has happened and with such little recourse to the people primarily affected - women.

Does anyone know the stance of The Opportunities Party on women’s issues? I’m quite interested in some of their other policies but haven’t found anything yet on Self ID etc. I will write to them but would like to know if anyone has already discovered their views.

Argh, completely missed the post above stating they are pro trans rights. @Changethatlockandkey - can you point me to where you’ve seen they’re pro trans rights? I may have missed something obvious.

Hi @Seraphinite (I’ve name changed)
I am so sorry I’ve realised when I was looking for a link got you that I was thinking of Damian Light’s (The former United Future leader) comments on Twitter and not TOP.

I can’t see anything on TOP at all bar an old interview (2017) with Mika, who was their then Auckland central candidate, ‘If a trans-prisoner wants to be in a female prison, then let them’. But it wouldn’t be fair to read that as necessarily representative of their position today.

I’ve included a screenshot of Andrew Little’s tweet that gave me concern so others can make their own judgement.

Thanks @yourfaceisaforeignfood for clarifying. I’ll write to TOP and share here what they tell me.

Just discovered a leaflet for the New Conservative Party which I'd put aside for recycling.

Under the section labelled Community

It is a scientific fact that there are only two biological genders. Gender ideology should not be taught in schools.

Sex instead of 'gender' would have been clearer, but at least there is a recognition of the basics of biology.

It's not a party I would vote for because I disagree with their policies on other issues, but they do point out that 'rushed law changes put democracy at risk. Due diligence and consultation is essential for good law'. Quite.

If nothing else it’s nice to have this thread as a resource for quick reference!

It is a real shame language has become so muddied @OtepotiLilliane42 - with gender used interchangeably with sex, even by people you are reasonably sure mean sex. It allows for obfuscation by people who want to avoid public scrutiny and push through changes that don’t have widespread support amongst the general public.

Heartening to see fellow GC Feminists in New Zealand on this thread. I too have been struggling with how to vote and toying with the idea of spoiling my ballot paper.

I am now inspired to contact my local candidates to ask their opinion on this and it may at least help inform my candidate vote. Not so sure about my party vote

@Seraphinite I came across this tweet today by the TOP candidate for Epsom and thought of you. (May not be party policy of course!)

Oops should have said she is talking about being upset with David Seymour.

Thanks @yourfaceisaforeignfood, good to know!

They haven’t replied to me yet about their stance. I’ve followed up so let’s see if I get a reply...

I just took a look at that TOP candidate’s twitter feed on the back of the above screenshot. She has shared the TOP rainbow policy which I hadn’t previously found; looks like it’s been added in the last few days.

A couple of excerpts:

“There is no therapy that can change someone’s sexual orientation or gender identity, nor should anyone be forced to try to do this. We would support legislation that effectively bans conversion therapy practices. We are also mindful that it has been challenging to define this practice in a way that doesn’t unnecessarily infringe on religious freedom. Nevertheless, the right of the individual to be protected from harm (whether that be physical or psychological) is paramount”

And

“Universal design is a valuable tool in enabling participation in society. For example, bathrooms that are designed to safely accommodate people of any gender and with different abilities and physical characteristics are great for everyone.”

And

“Generally health procedures and medications should be funded based on a sober analysis of the costs and benefits (including the benefits of being able to participate fully in society and express one's own identity). We recognise, however, that less common conditions are often left behind in these kinds of assessments. We don’t know how much more resourcing is appropriate for, for instance, gender-affirming surgery. We would defer to expert advice on this. We would also defer to expert advice on what sorts of treatments, such as puberty blockers and hormones, are appropriate for people under the age of 16.”

And

“And being able to express our gender identities without being confined to stereotypes

Gender is about identity, which can and should be self-defined. Sex is a biological term, albeit a more complicated concept than many people appreciate.
Many aspects of life are unnecessarily gendered. This hurts people of all genders. We are shoehorned into two distinct categories which don’t always reflect reality. This limits gender roles and really harms people who don’t conform to the binary categories.
Government doesn’t have a role in all these areas, but where possible we should encourage policies and practices that don’t force people into two discrete boxes.
Transgender, non-binary and intersex people have as much right to participate in sport as anyone. We think it’s going to take some work to figure out how to reconcile the binary categories of sports with the non-binary nature of gender. This is probably a great issue to work through with Citizens’ Assemblies involving people with lived experience and a range of expertise.
Transgender, non-binary and intersex people should have easy access to gender-affirming identity documents“

Good luck @Seraphinite - there are lots of unanswered emails To various political parties at the moment I think.

In a subsequent tweet Christie was bemoaning all the emails she has received asking If ‘women are adult human females’ and whether she will publicly state so.

So though it was great to know there are obviously more of us out there, it was depressing to once again read of a young woman who cant see any implications past ‘why can’t mean women just accept we are all different’.