Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Surrogacy for straight men wanting kids?

61 replies

bathsh3ba · 25/08/2020 08:35

I can't find the link now but yesterday I was scrolling through Twitter and there was a post where someone was moaning about being blocked from Tinder. Another guy said dating was hopeless, there were no decent women and he was going to use his best female friend's eggs and hire a surrogate to carry them. He also said lots of straight men were now doing this.
I have so many questions! Is this really a common thing now, hiring women's wombs out? I'd heard of it for fertility problems but not just convenience. Why would anyone do it? No amount of money would make me carry someone else's child for 9 months then give it away. Since when did babies come to order? Ugh....

OP posts:
SoloMummy · 25/08/2020 08:59

I don't see this any different to gay couples tbh.

buttonhole · 25/08/2020 09:45

.... hire a surrogate to carry them...

Illegal, surely.

Original poster
bathsh3ba · 25/08/2020 10:25

I don't know if the guy was UK based, I didn't check his profile. I think laws may be more relaxed in the US? But it's just the idea that you can 'hire' a womb or you can 'order' a baby that I find so hard to get my head around. I can just about understand it in cases of fertility difficulties, although I still feel uncomfortable with the hiring element of it, but a gay or trans couple don't have 'fertility difficulties', they just don't have the right equipment - same with a single straight man. Somehow it makes it worse to me. It is dangerously close to saying having a child is a human right and I really strongly disagree with that.

OP posts:
1940s · 25/08/2020 10:37

I dont see the difference between a single man, a gay couple or a married straight couple for example that are infertile. They all can't physically have children. I disagree with surrogacy in each scenario. And the more we see it in any of the scenarios the more prevalent it will become across each scenario.

Aesopfable · 25/08/2020 10:54

Straight men wanting babies is no different to gay men; women are still not a commodity for them to use. Though perhaps being straight it make the commodification of women even clearer.

But even before that, saying he intends to use his best friends eggs as though they can be produced in the same way as sperm? I suspect he has no idea that in order to have eggs to collect women have to put themselves through a horrendous hormonal regime and then undergo what is an invasive surgical procedure. Or that this whole process has some serious risks attached to it. If he did and it was a genuine friendship then he would no way expect that of her.

DreadPirateLuna · 25/08/2020 11:03

I feel a lot of sympathy for people who want children and can't have them for whatever reason. I married relatively late and had fertility struggles. My best friend would love to have been a Mum but never met the right guy and is now past the age where it's possible. My youngest brother is single and I know he'd love children (DD and her cousins think he's the coolest uncle ever).

However, this doesn't mean I can discount the ethical problems with surrogacy (or with some types of adoption). I would have been devastated if my efforts to have a child failed, but that doesn't mean I could exploit someone else to fulfill my dreams.

buttonhole · 25/08/2020 11:17

Straight men wanting babies is no different to gay men; women are still not a commodity for them to use.

^
This.

Nookable · 25/08/2020 11:21

This has reminded me of an article published earlier in the year. They interviewed a variety of single dad's who had became parents through fostering, adoption and surrogacy. So there's at least 2 single dad's in the UK who used a (US) surrogate.

The ones that used surrogacy were also both in their mid 50s or older when the children which just adds another dimension of selfishness in my opinion. These kids will likely either be orphans or have caring responsibilities by the time they're 30.

www.theguardian.com/society/2020/jan/29/i-always-wanted-to-be-a-dad-the-rise-of-single-fathers-by-choice

JonHammIsMyJamm · 25/08/2020 11:26

I disagree with the ethics of surrogacy. As PP’s have said, the idea of women, babies and reproduction as a commodity is disgusting to me.

SnuggyBuggy · 25/08/2020 11:26

Am I really cynical in wondering if the sort of man who would do this could actually be arsed to look after a child or do they tend to hire nannies?

110APiccadilly · 25/08/2020 11:29

I once saw an MRA type boasting online that he'd done this. No idea if it was true. If it's ok for gay men/ infertile couples/ etc, I find it hard to think of a coherent argument against it being ok for single men.

(Note that I do not agree with the premise that it is ok for those groups. I'm just saying I can't see a reason to restrict to only them.)

SapatSea · 25/08/2020 11:42

It's all part of the push for "Fertlity equality" isn't it, that having a biologically related child is a "human right." It seems to be being pushed a lot by some LGBTQ+ groups. I've also seen articles about Israeli gay couples lobbying for greater and equal "access to wombs." It's horrific and so wrong. I read this recently, free access to surrogacy is apparently taking "equality to it's final and logical conclusion"
www.nytimes.com/2020/07/22/style/lgbtq-fertility-surrogacy-coverage.html

JonHammIsMyJamm · 25/08/2020 11:54

“access to wombs”, like they aren’t a private part of a human being with rights and autonomy. Who do these people think they are?

JonHammIsMyJamm · 25/08/2020 11:55

It makes my blood run cold, @SapatSea

Original poster
bathsh3ba · 25/08/2020 12:21

Relieved I'm not the only one to feel profoundly uncomfortable with it. In all circumstances, if I'm honest.

OP posts:
merrymouse · 25/08/2020 12:25

Is this really a common thing now, hiring women's wombs out?

I think this is one of those issues where the US and the UK are poles apart.

It is illegal to 'hire a womb' in the UK. You can pay expenses, but theoretically a surrogate cannot make a profit.

However, it seems fairly common for older rich women to use a surrogate in the US.

merrymouse · 25/08/2020 12:28

It's all part of the push for "Fertlity equality" isn't it, that having a biologically related child is a "human right."

It's not a push for fertility equality, its a push for extreme fertility privilege.

The pool of women who want to be surrogates for altruistic reasons is understandably small. Surrogacy can only function as a tool of the very rich or through exploitation of the very poor.

Goosefoot · 25/08/2020 12:42

I don't think this is "common" just because some guy on Twitter says so.

I am sure it happens though, and the whole idea of surrogacy has become more acceptable in the general culture.

Unfortunately there is a group that claims that restricting it is discriminatory to gays and lesbians. I remember a few years ago a Guardian article where the designers Dolce and Gabbana were interviewed and said they disagreed with surrogacy and Elton John had some sort of fit about it. People in the comments were going on as this being prejudice about gays, how they were self hating gay men, etc.

Something about what people are being taught about fairness is leading people to think this way, I suspect.

Anyway, if surrogacy is ok, why not for a single person who is unmarried? Even without the womb factor I don't like bought or donated gametes of any kind being involved so it's kind of a no-go for me. This guy, if he is really wanting a family, maybe should consider marrying his egg donating friend.

merrymouse · 25/08/2020 13:28

I don't think this is "common" just because some guy on Twitter says so.

Sorry - common isn't the right word.

I mean that it seems to be fairly accepted as a possible route to parenthood for older women with resources.

Unfortunately there is a group that claims that restricting it is discriminatory to gays and lesbians.

People who say this are living in a fantasy world. Except for the few people who know somebody who is prepared to be a surrogate for altruistic reasons, surrogacy is never going to be a viable alternative for most people, unless they plan to exploit the birth mother.

(I'm not attempting to address the point of whether it is every ethical to rent a womb - just pointing out that once you have decided that it is OK, any 'fair' price will be unattainable for all but a few people. You might as well argue that everyone should have properties in Windsor, London, Atlanta and Nice)

Goosefoot · 25/08/2020 13:44

People who say this are living in a fantasy world. Except for the few people who know somebody who is prepared to be a surrogate for altruistic reasons, surrogacy is never going to be a viable alternative for most people, unless they plan to exploit the birth mother.

I think you are forgetting one important thing - medical insurance, be it a social model or private.

Many of the people who think this is a solution thing that surrogacy, like other forms of treatment for people who have issues of fertility, should be paid for by state-funded health care or regular private insurance plans that most have access to.

They presumably believe that if enough cash was offered enough women would be interested in offering their services.

DandyMandy · 25/08/2020 14:10

So single women who use a sperm donor get judged for it, but a male is "allowed" to do this and get no judgement? That's just typical. Considering men do very little for their kids already, this is absolutely not common. Funny how he said dating was pointless and there are no decent women. Lol, what an MRA. That means "there are no women who will do everything I say/bow down to the almighty male". There are no decent men, mate. You've got a bit confused.

DopamineHits · 25/08/2020 14:48

I find it depressing that a man can say out loud "there are no decent women" and a woman will go through an operation to donate eggs for him, and another woman will agree to carry the foetus for him, and he may end up raising a motherless daughter who'll end up dealing with a severe case of internalized misogyny/guilt that she didn't oblige her misogynist father and grow a penis.

GCAcademic · 25/08/2020 14:53

he was going to use his best female friend's eggs and hire a surrogate to carry them. He also said lots of straight men were now doing this.

Had his female friend offered her eggs, could you tell, or was there just an assumption that he had access to these as well as to a different woman’s womb?

deydododatdodontdeydo · 25/08/2020 15:08

So single women who use a sperm donor get judged for it, but a male is "allowed" to do this and get no judgement? That's just typical.

Not really, we are judging here aren't we?
In answer to the OPs question, I doubt it is common, widespread, or generally accepted.
As Goosefoot says, some random anon bloke on twitter has claimed he's going to do it.
No proof it has actually happened.

Original poster
bathsh3ba · 25/08/2020 15:11

I found the thread:

twitter.com/hungryonabike/status/1297764528290234368

He just says 'a good female friend'. The decent woman comment is one of the replies.

OP posts: