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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Surrogacy for straight men wanting kids?

61 replies

bathsh3ba · 25/08/2020 08:35

I can't find the link now but yesterday I was scrolling through Twitter and there was a post where someone was moaning about being blocked from Tinder. Another guy said dating was hopeless, there were no decent women and he was going to use his best female friend's eggs and hire a surrogate to carry them. He also said lots of straight men were now doing this.
I have so many questions! Is this really a common thing now, hiring women's wombs out? I'd heard of it for fertility problems but not just convenience. Why would anyone do it? No amount of money would make me carry someone else's child for 9 months then give it away. Since when did babies come to order? Ugh....

OP posts:
DandyMandy · 25/08/2020 15:54

@deydododatdodontdeydo

So single women who use a sperm donor get judged for it, but a male is "allowed" to do this and get no judgement? That's just typical.

Not really, we are judging here aren't we?
In answer to the OPs question, I doubt it is common, widespread, or generally accepted.
As Goosefoot says, some random anon bloke on twitter has claimed he's going to do it.
No proof it has actually happened.

Sorry, I didn't mean it like that. I meant generally speaking single mothers are judged by men, but the man who walked out on her gets off scot-free. I didn't mean to come across as if I was accusing MN users of judging women.
buttonhole · 25/08/2020 16:09

I followed the link to see what this dick looked like - imagine my surprise when I clocked his big hairy beard!

buttonhole · 25/08/2020 16:16

He just says 'a good female friend'..

He won't have any of those so I'd suggest that's code for his mum.

Imnobody4 · 25/08/2020 16:22

Funny how a woman having her own child involves pain, surgery etc, etc, and a man having his own child involves a woman having surgery etc, etc. It's almost as if men think women are just one more natural resource to be exploited.
I don't underestimate an individual's desire to have a child but the human condition involves pain and disappointment. Without it we can hardly be called human.
www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/first-came-penis-envy-now-theres-womb-envy-1586614.html

OhHolyJesus · 25/08/2020 16:29

Sharing some stories/cases of single men having surrogate babies. (My understanding is, and I'm no expert, that for parental orders there needs to be a genetic connection between the applicant and the baby, otherwise it needs to be an adoption order. The restrictions on POs only applying to couples was lifted in Dec 2018. The report here:
commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8076/#fullreport)

Another UK case back in 2016 (prior to the above) with representation from Natalie Gamble...Single Man is biological father to a baby born from surrogate mother ('mother' is mentioned once)
www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Fam/2016/1191.html

UK Single Man has his mother give birth to his child - his father adopted him but the mother was his biological mother and the baby was conceived using an egg donor. Essentially the court saw them as sibling, having the same mother and father (though not quite the same biology of course but the same legal parents.)

"A child (A) had been born to a woman (C) and her husband (D) as part of a surrogacy arrangement with a single man (B). B was the son of C and adopted son of D. B was a 26 year old single homosexual male who lived alone. B had wanted to start a family and a female relative had agreed to be a surrogate but had withdrawn due to medical reasons. C, with the support of D, offered to be a surrogate for her son. C, D and B received individual and group counselling and attended a clinic licensed by the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Authority (HFEA) where an embryo created with a donor egg and B’s sperm was implanted into C. A lived with B from birth and B made an application for an adoption order on the day A was born with the consent of C and D.
THE JUDGEMENT
"Theis, J granted the adoption order but noted that except for the close family relationship B, C and D would have been guilty of an offence under s.93 of the 2002 Act. The court’s judgement included advice to single people seeking a child through a surrogacy arrangement to ensure they sought substantial legal advice before embarking on that route to parenthood. In coming to a decision the court had the welfare of the child as its paramount consideration."

This single man has been called selfish by his friends...

“I faced so many heartbreaks along the way (including failed embryo transfers, miscarriages and a stillborn birth) that sometimes I just wanted to give up. And I definitely didn’t anticipate that I would work with a total of six surrogate moms.
www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/became-single-dad-surrogacy-friends-050033936.html

The only case I can find so far of a single woman doing this is where she became a widow, the husband died during the Surrogate Mother's pregnancy. It wasn't her egg so she didn't have a genetic connection. The judge granted her parental responsibility and the surrogate mother supported this.

Lastly, I share this as it is relevant. The husband and wife divorce, after a whirlwind romance/marriage/surrogacy arrangements x 2 - the divorce is finalise the same month the surrogate mother gives birth:

"X and Y married in 2016 and within a matter of weeks went to the Ukraine where they joined the 'Victoria Vita Surrogacy programme', which offered a fixed price for unlimited embryo transfers. For reasons which are not clear the written agreement entered into has not been part of the papers in these proceedings. According to X this agreement included terms that permitted the clinic to sign on Y's behalf. X reports they chose an egg donor and embryos were created using the donated eggs and Y's gametes. A surrogate was selected, and an agreement signed in June 2016. The subsequent embryo transfer was successful, she was carrying twins. Unfortunately, the surrogate first miscarried one child and then, later, the second. Before the second miscarriage, X had sought further IVF treatment in the Ukraine, which was also unsuccessful. During the course of that treatment, the applicant met the respondent surrogate mother, Z. Following the first surrogate's second miscarriage a further surrogacy arrangement was entered into with Z on 9 December 2016 and embryos were transferred to Z on the same day. This agreement is in the papers with what X states are the signature of the agency on behalf of Y. The pregnancy was confirmed in December 2016."

SerendipityJane · 25/08/2020 16:37

Not really sure where the surprise is coming from here ? In a society where we allow ourselves as humans to be commoditised, surely it's only natural that children should be commodities too ?

If people aren't happy then they need to wind us all back a few years. you can't stop this unless you stop the attitudes behind it.

Goosefoot · 25/08/2020 17:00

@SerendipityJane

Not really sure where the surprise is coming from here ? In a society where we allow ourselves as humans to be commoditised, surely it's only natural that children should be commodities too ?

If people aren't happy then they need to wind us all back a few years. you can't stop this unless you stop the attitudes behind it.

I totally agree with this, and in fact I think this is the case with a lot of stuff that is discussed on FWR. Lots of the ideas that are gaining traction now are the result of other ideas that have been widely accepted. About parenthood, or sexual activity, or gender roles, whatever.

Not that you can go backwards as such, but you have to follow the string back until you find the knot and try and untangle it there.

SerendipityJane · 25/08/2020 17:12

Not that you can go backwards as such, but you have to follow the string back until you find the knot and try and untangle it there.

That ship sailed decades ago. If indeed it was ever in port to start with. I believe the roller coaster has climbed the up bit (took a long time) and we're just at the point where you can wave to your watching family before it hurtles down, accelerating (because that's how gravity works) before it hits the ground at pretty much terminal (which would be the correct word in so many ways) velocity.

I have fuck all intention of being in said car, but don't really know where's best to stand and watch the carnage. Although I'm guessing it would be somewhere that doesn't speak English.

ErrolTheDragon · 25/08/2020 19:22

  • I think you are forgetting one important thing - medical insurance, be it a social model or private.

If I was a medical insurer, I wouldn't entertain a claim from a bloke whose only impairment re fertility appears to be his inability to attract a mate. Confused

GrapefruitsAreNotTheOnlyFruit · 25/08/2020 20:04

Didn't Michael Jackson do this years ago?

DidoLamenting · 25/08/2020 21:31

@buttonhole

Straight men wanting babies is no different to gay men; women are still not a commodity for them to use.

^
This.

Straight men wanting babies is no different to gay men; women are still not a commodity for them to use

Straight men wanting babies is no different to gay men or straight couples or single women or lesbian couples ; women are still not a commodity for them to use.

Women also exploit other women when it comes to surrogacy.

DidoLamenting · 25/08/2020 21:34

It's almost as if men think women are just one more natural resource to be exploited

What about women who do this? Are they let off the hook?

Stop pretending that surrogacy and the exploitation of surrogate mothers is something only men do.

DopamineHits · 25/08/2020 21:41

What about women who do this? Are they let off the hook?

My main problem tbh is that he says there are no decent women, then announces a plan that will require at least two women to do him a very big favour for it to have any chance of success.

CodenameVillanelle · 25/08/2020 21:43

@GrapefruitsAreNotTheOnlyFruit

Didn't Michael Jackson do this years ago?
Yes but I think he simply bought the babies from their mothers after artificially impregnating them. They had pretend relationships then the mothers just faded away.
Goosefoot · 25/08/2020 22:44

@SerendipityJane

Not that you can go backwards as such, but you have to follow the string back until you find the knot and try and untangle it there.

That ship sailed decades ago. If indeed it was ever in port to start with. I believe the roller coaster has climbed the up bit (took a long time) and we're just at the point where you can wave to your watching family before it hurtles down, accelerating (because that's how gravity works) before it hits the ground at pretty much terminal (which would be the correct word in so many ways) velocity.

I have fuck all intention of being in said car, but don't really know where's best to stand and watch the carnage. Although I'm guessing it would be somewhere that doesn't speak English.

I suspect that you are right, on a society level it is going to crash. But for those who see it is a problem, I think it's important to try and do the intellectual work of the unpicking.
BlackWaveComing · 25/08/2020 22:45

[quote Imnobody4]Funny how a woman having her own child involves pain, surgery etc, etc, and a man having his own child involves a woman having surgery etc, etc. It's almost as if men think women are just one more natural resource to be exploited.
I don't underestimate an individual's desire to have a child but the human condition involves pain and disappointment. Without it we can hardly be called human.
www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/first-came-penis-envy-now-theres-womb-envy-1586614.html[/quote]
This x 100

RaveOm · 25/08/2020 22:54

It needs to be totally outlawed, and made illegal to travel to another country to use a surrogate too.

stairway · 25/08/2020 22:56

Ronaldo did this as well which I found absolutely bizarre given he had female partners, although I’ve always wondered if he was gay.

NiceGerbil · 26/08/2020 00:44

'Straight men wanting babies is no different to gay men; women are still not a commodity for them to use.

^
This.'

This again.

As for the poster who seems (admittedly I skimmed) to be drawing equivalence between men getting eggs and a surrogate (risk and a lot of time to two women) with getting some spunk... Wtf.

Semen is hardly in short supply. Some men even generously share it with women's coats on the tube.

FannyCann · 26/08/2020 08:02

Where do they think all the young women willing to provide this "service" will come from?

The law Commission propose lifting the current ban on advertising - this is what our young women face, being relentlessly targeted for the eggs or rent of their uterus.

https://heyreprotech.substack.com/p/ads-that-target-young-women?r=3qvki&utmcampaign=post&utmmmedium=email&utmsource=copy

buttonhole · 26/08/2020 08:47

I have always had the feeling that M Jackson and C Ronaldo were not interested in women.

buttonhole · 26/08/2020 08:48

@1940s

I dont see the difference between a single man, a gay couple or a married straight couple for example that are infertile. They all can't physically have children. I disagree with surrogacy in each scenario. And the more we see it in any of the scenarios the more prevalent it will become across each scenario.

Very well put.

110APiccadilly · 26/08/2020 09:35

@FannyCann I've obviously aged out of it or something, but I used to get quite a lot of adverts about egg donation on Facebook. Were these illegal or were they using a loophole?

OhHolyJesus · 26/08/2020 10:03

I think Facebook ads are allowed as it's a global company. I get loads from British Surrogacy Centre just because of the algorithms of my posts and shares (and the things I could tell you about co-Directors Tony and Barrie Drewitt Barlow would make you sick). I block each and every one, my understanding is it isn't illegal but taking out a private as in a newspaper or doing say a leaflet drop, is.

Here's a recent article from Canada containing examples of ads we could expect to see in the U.K. if the proposal to lift the ban on advertising is part of the bill that would see the law change in the U.K. I have seen similar ads on FB. Always happy smiling faces, no details whatsoever about the procedure and what it entails, let alone what the risks are.

https://heyreprotech.substack.com/p/ads-that-target-young-women?r=3lkx6&utmcampaign=post&utmmmedium=email&utmsource=facebook

ThePankhurstConnection · 26/08/2020 10:22

[quote Imnobody4]Funny how a woman having her own child involves pain, surgery etc, etc, and a man having his own child involves a woman having surgery etc, etc. It's almost as if men think women are just one more natural resource to be exploited.
I don't underestimate an individual's desire to have a child but the human condition involves pain and disappointment. Without it we can hardly be called human.
www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/first-came-penis-envy-now-theres-womb-envy-1586614.html[/quote]
Quite.

Women and women's bodies are not commodities for people to use when they wish, so it is a blanket no to all surrogacy for me.

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