"Surrogate lost" - did she die?

[OhHolyJesus]

I struggle to post about Lance Bass due to the overt misogyny causing me nausea but here it is .

He and his husband 'lost' a surrogate and now he's sad as finding one during times of a global pandemic are really hard. I don't think she died, but 'lost'? She wasn't yours to lose.

I think the poor woman was likely quite broken wants to now run far and fast away from these awful people. I hope she has a good therapist.

toofab.com/2020/08/21/lance-bass-gives-update-on-surrogacy/

I wondered if it was following a radio 4 piece about women freezing their eggs being encouraged to cut the cost by egg sharing OhHoly but it wasn't particularly critical.

This podcast may be of interest. Dr Jennifer Schneider lost her daughter to cancer which may or may not be related to her multiple egg donations. But she does get comfort from contact with children born as a result of her daughter's donations - her biological grandchildren.

For all the attempts to deny biology in many areas, those biological connections matter.

podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/venus-rising/id1481872967?i=1000475091684

A lot of this is horrible but AIBU to think ‘sunroof’ is okay? It’s just a joke! I had to have sections with both my babies and my sister (who’s had two natural births) refers to mine as having come out the sunroof. It honestly would never have occurred to me to take that offensively!

Not sure I'd use offensive but I'd be uncomfortable if someone else used it to describe either of my emergency sections. I don't see any difference between your sister saying that and my mum describing vaginal births as a "proper" birth. Both are borderline imo and don't get me started on belly birth.

It's commonly used in a few csection support groups I frequent and I'm okay with that, women can use whatever terms they like to deal with their own experiences but if someone hasn't been there, they have no place making light of the situation.

A lot of this is horrible but AIBU to think ‘sunroof’ is okay? It’s just a joke! I had to have sections with both my babies and my sister (who’s had two natural births) refers to mine as having come out the sunroof. It honestly would never have occurred to me to take that offensively!

Well, it's your call, obviously, but I don't personally think it's cute for people to minimise major abdominal surgery when they haven't themselves had it. I mean, I was watching my own CS in the reflection in the lightshade overhead, and anything less like lifting a baby out of a 'sunroof' can hardly be imagined.

In my case the use of sunroof was a lighthearted discussion on looking after postnatal health. There's a time and a place. If someone was talking about their own traumatic experience of c section that wouldn't be the time to bring up the phrase.

I think that "sun roof" is (yet) another minimising term, isn't it?

[quote KingFredsTache]I have looked this up a bit further as I am so fucking shocked by it, and this is a video about it - she didn't know she was being filmed in labour until it was aired!

I just can't believe this!

Warning, I did find this video a bit upsetting, it made me so angry!

[[https://youtu.be/q-qEeqYmxxk[/quote]
Surely that has to be an offence?

I mean if you filmed someone secretly during sex then aired it on TV you'd be on the sex offenders register.

This isn't that different.

What is a Lance Bass? Is it famous for something? I have never heard of it before.

Personally don't find the sunroof comment that offensive. I've seen it used before (sunroof vs. car door) in other contexts like discussing the pelvic floor.

The language is completely dehumanising, that's all. If that's not offensive, I don't know what is?

Of course people may jokingly use it as a euphemism to refer to their own body (like I'd say my reproductive system is "rebooting" when my periods start). And some black people may choose to use the "N" word when talking to each other. It doesn't mean it's OK for "outsiders" to use the same words.

@xxyzz

What is a Lance Bass? Is it famous for something? I have never heard of it before.

It does sound like the name of a fish. Apparently he's a former member of a boy band that I'd also never heard of.

The same one that Justin Timberlake was in.

"Extreme babysitter"

One for your Bingo card Fanny

Success Story www.mumsnet.com/Talk/surrogacy/4000376-Success-Story

Surely that has to be an offence?

I mean if you filmed someone secretly during sex then aired it on TV you'd be on the sex offenders register.

Yeah I did wonder this myself? Apparently because they didn't show her face during the labour (when she didn't know she was being filmed) then it makes it a bit of a grey area....

I am still reeling about what he said about getting a wax - it's obviously supposed to be a 'bitchy' comment for effect for the purposes of the show, but it's just such a disgusting thing to say about the woman who has carried and given birth to your child. How is it in any way OK?

I'm sitting on my hands

Thanks, FannyCann - I was lucky, I subsequently went on to have a baby with no intervention, much to everyone's surprise, but I still remember the horror that was multiple injections, vaginal untrasounds, egg collection and embryo insertion, not to mention the long-term after effects of drug use (I was given a version of Lupron; this was a long time ago). Unless things have changed a lot, egg donation isn't a walk in the park.

The heart fucking bleeds for him. I hope any potential surrogates realise what kind of a person he is and run far away.

So by my count thats 10 egg donors and 2 surrogates so far,
and now they are looking for a third

Is there no limitation to how many people it is possible to exploit?
Lets not even get into the ethics of the embryo creation and selection process.

This man is odious.

Presumably women who do want to be ‘incubators‘ during a global pandemic can pick and choose the commissioning parents - which would explain why Mr Bass is at the back of the queue.

(Both of my children came out ‘through the sunroof’ but I wouldn’t dream of describing anyone else’s c section births that way)

A lot of this is horrible but AIBU to think ‘sunroof’ is okay?

OK to minimise if you are having the CS.

Not OK to minimise if somebody else is having the CS for you.

Similarly it wouldn't be 'cute' to minimise somebody donating a kidney.

It is pretty odious - retrieving an egg is no small process. It's painful, tough on your body and involves a lot of invasive procedures. The men aren't infertile...and they shouldn't get to use the term 'we're trying to get pregnant."

The reporting though is atrocious, "heartbreaking update", but the whole situation is all about him and how he feels.

When I was younger I didn't consider egg donation a big issue, I didn't need them as such so no harm in one else having them. Ah the folly of youth. I have never really untangled my thoughts though as I would never have been eligible to donate (I have a known genetic condition, with a 1:2 chance of passing on) so it all became a moot point.

@CharlieParley Thanks so much for posting the prize winning Object essay. It's a brilliant essay. I wish I could have written something of that calibre. So many strong points that I need to write down and keep for a handy quote!

Reposting for newcomers who may have missed the link.

<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=objectnow.org/how-do-altruistic-and-commercial-surrogacy-affect-the-rights-of-women-and-children" target="_blank">http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=objectnow.org/how-do-altruistic-and-commercial-surrogacy-affect-the-rights-of-women-and-children/

Law and policy is developing and changing across the world and it is vital that the rights of women and children are always the foremost consideration. I have argued for an abolitionist approach because a regulatory harm reduction approach does not advance the aim of feminism. Industrialising patriarchal norms is not compatible with a political movement that demands the emancipation of all women. Feminism cannot succeed by sacrificing the most disenfranchised women to patriarchy, restricting its interest to making improvements to the conditions of their abuse. Surrogacy must be prohibited.

Interestingly, our local fertility clinic has banners up around the waiting room with illustration icons of couples, so a little stick man and a woman, two women etc.

I noticed that when you counted them all up, there were more male icons figures than female by quite a way. I wondered whether to say anything, but decided against it at the time. But it just seemed so weird, considering it is females that undergo the invasive procedures and gestate.

AlbusSirius. How wonderful that after all you went through nature provided in the end! I'm so pleased for you.

It's amazing how often this happens.
I always remember a woman, who must have been pushing 40, she had teenage adoptive children. Her husband went on a business trip to the Far East and came back with a small bronze fertility statuette. She said she thought it looked a bit grubby so she gave it a polish...and next thing she knew she was pregnant! She returned about a year later having another baby - she'd been polishing that statuette again!
The consultant asked if her husband could bring back a box load of them next time he went there. 🤗❤️

Heres another utterly charming story here:

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/showbiz-news/millionaire-who-one-first-men-18815838
Millionaire who was one of the first men in the UK to become a dad through a surrogate has got engaged to his daughter's ex-boyfriend... and they're expecting a baby

I notice that the new boyfriend is a similar age to the daughter, and the ex-husband has given his blessing but not a peep about how the daughter (and her four siblings) feel about this and the fact there is another baby on the way.

Oh he is just lovely isn't he?

He was actually expecting triplets but the two male foetuses were killed by fatal injection to the heart as he has too many boys in the family. The daughter has stated that she will use a surrogate mother to create her family as pregnancy is icky, or words to that effect.

His husband was (and is) being treated for cancer when the boyfriend moved in.

His surrogacy agency British Surrogacy Centre is still operating, though I think I heard there was an issue with him being registered as the Director still as there was a ban on him owning a business? That last bit could be bollocks...

The Drewitt-Barlows were everywhere in the news when the twins were born 20 odd years ago weren't they? They must have been, because as soon as I saw that article the name and the face, and the name of the twins (Saffron and Aspen) was so familiar to me? Did they have a TV show or something, I don't know, i feel like it's so familiar!