A Transchild, the Tavistock, Mermaids and GenderGP

[Thingybob]

Has anyone seen this:

www.gendergp.com/raising-a-trans-teen-podcast/

A quick synopsis is that Arthur first identified as male when they were six to seven years old. They did this by drawing a man and a woman then stating they weren't the "girl" but couldn't be the other and it couldn't be put right. Mum assured him it could.

Arthur had his first appointment with the Tavistock at seven and a half and after what Mum describes as "a battle" were prescribed puberty blockers at nine and a half (supposedly the youngest person to be prescribed by the Tavistock)

At about the same time Arthur, still nine years old, went to a Mermaids residential (presumably with Mum) where they met Helen Webberley and many older trans people. He left the residential constantly asking his mother "Have you rung GenderGP? Have you rung Norman Spack? When are we going to America?"

At some point, it's unclear when but Arthur was between ten and thirteen years of age, their relationship with the Tavistock broke down. The Tavistock had sent a letter saying that Arthur was too young to be making these massive decisions presumably in response to Arthur's request for testosterone. This led to a private appointment(s) being made with GenderGP where Arthur got his required medications put in place.

I just read the transcript. It's clear this kid really has no idea what they've signed up for. Painful surgeries, infertility, lack of sexual function, a lifetime of injecting hormones. None of this is ever mentioned. In their head it's just a simple: "I was a girl and then I chose to be a boy, what's the big deal?".

This is a bit concerning? Why would the mother conflate Mermaids with the NHS?

Marianne Oakes:
Can I just—what was your journey to finding GenderGP, if that’s not too big a question. It sounds like it was with the NHS before, would that be correct?

Anna:
Yes, Mermaids.

There is something very weird about that whole conversation.

I think the mother is saying that they heard about GenderGP via Mermaids Itsallgoingtobefine.

I just cant get my head around GenderGP thinking it is acceptable to put kids on cross sex hormones before they are even teenagers. They are not hiding that fact in the recording, if anything they are proud of what they have done for the child.

How is this legal in the UK?

A decade ago, the Tavistock recommended the parents watched a movie. “And the first appointment he was about eight, or seven and a half, and it said to watch a film about, what’s it called, Only Boys Cry, or what was it? It was tragic, and I never really watched it through yet.”
So the movie is too tragic for mum to watch. We do all hope that Arthur’s future will be fine, but the parents don’t seem to want to think of the possible negatives ahead...

At about the same time Arthur, still nine years old, went to a Mermaids residential (presumably with Mum) where they met Helen Webberley and many older trans people. He left the residential constantly asking his mother "Have you rung GenderGP? Have you rung Norman Spack? When are we going to America?"

You know those residentials they have where they sell pyramid schemes or dodgy timeshare apartments in a weekend long sales pitch?

Well just that. To children.

Thanks for posting.

I found this really disturbing on so many levels. There was no consideration whatsoever of any of the ethics or medical problems caused by giving puberty blockers and cross sex hormones to a child who is not yet 14. How can Dr Helen Webberley be so relaxed about what she is doing? It's all so ridiculously casual:

Anna (mum)
And then he was diagnosed. He got his blockers. I think he was the youngest. They said he was the youngest child. And he was so relieved. And then, because all he had was looking at his chest, he was very proud of his chest, aren’t you? He’s always got it out.

Dr Helen Webberley:
You should be.

Anna:
There’s not going to be top surgery. So, we got that, and that was a bit of a sigh of relief.

As well as the the podcast there is a transcript of the interview which reveals just how much of the process and narrative is driven and shaped by adult voices.

How is this legal in the UK?

Is it legal, though? GenderGP has been struck off and has moved abroad, afaik. Now I believe there is some other arrangement for supplying their clients with medication.

Its not just medical ethics at play here.

We have medical companies that seem to be targetting children via Mermaids with hardcore sales pitches which wouldn't meet trading standards for selling shoes, never mind medical services.

Imagine a cult which was about selling cosmetic surgery to children for financial gain. How would it look different?

My child was offered puberty blockers at 11/12, we declined and then we were told we wouldn't get further help.

I asked on Mermaids what I should do to get further help and was told I was abusive for not allowing my child to have blockers.

The whole system is geared towards permanently medicalising very young children.

The law sees them as legally old enough to effectively sterilise themselves, but not old enough to get a tattoo

Also asked at the school for help and we were pointed straight to mermaids again.

Arthur is 13. His mum is glad he is going through the same changes as his peers, i.e. male puberty. Arthur does karate at a high level and has currently started competing as a boy, which is going fine as a 5'5" 13 year old.

Poor Arthur is going to learn some uncomfortable things over the next few years about the difference in physical outcome between (1) a female taking male hormones while suppressing female puberty and (2) a male who has gone through male puberty.

It sounds like Arthur's dad understands. I felt for him.

I was struck by the random casual aside that Arthur has a seven year old sister who is "pretty", no other details given about her, except that she is pretty. Right so.

DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult that's terrible. It makes my blood boil. I'm sorry you have been through this. Did you end up getting any help elsewhere?

Apart from the rest of the horrors that lie ahead, why has nobody told Arthur that taking testosterone for the rest of their life will prevent them ever going to the Olympics?
Or is it assumed sport will just be a free for all soon?

@ArabellaScott

How is this legal in the UK?

Is it legal, though? GenderGP has been struck off and has moved abroad, afaik. Now I believe there is some other arrangement for supplying their clients with medication.

It's not legal. Webberley was suspended (not struck off) for giving testosterone to a 12 year old girl. Her husband was allowed to continue practising for a while but he is now also suspended.

www.gmc-uk.org/doctors?page=1&lastNameText=webberley

Doesn't really matter if it is a free for all in sports for Arthur's olympic dreams does it?

Arthur was assigned female at birth so I would be very surprised if at eighteen years old Arthur will be beating people assigned male at birth in a martial art men's category, even if Arthur is allowed to take loads of performance enhancing drugs to compensate for being afab.

Based on that transcript Arthur seems to be being told that Arthur is transitioning to being a man.

Legally, yes, Arthur will most likely become a man at adulthood. The legal document won't make a difference to the physical impact made by an amab punch landing on Arthur's afab skeleton in a couple of year's time though.

I presume someone will have mentioned to Arthur the risks of fighting males?

@DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult

Also asked at the school for help and we were pointed straight to mermaids again.

I was also told by my DD’s school to go to Mermaids. For “education and support”. I’d spent a full hour outlining my DD’s complex mental health history and why we didn’t think affirming was appropriate and they still told me to go to Mermaids.

Did you end up getting any help elsewhere?

I had to work 4 jobs to pay for a private therapist. My child is now an adult, and looks set to go down the route of hormones and surgery, but they are extremely grateful that I gave them that option and that I was honest about all of the negative side effects. My child is 100% fully informed, although any negative effects are completely glossed over in the clinics for children.

Puberty blockers were referred to as 'thinking time'.

rogdmum I was the same, I outlined my mermaids experience to the teacher recommending this and she was horrified, they get given some leaflets and don't research it themselves, but she said that she was told this is the advice they have, so she has to keep recommending mermaids to anyone who asks for help.

If a parent trusts professionals completely and everyone is signposting that this is the way to help your kid, it's completely understandable that they take the advice.

At about the same time Arthur, still nine years old, went to a Mermaids residential where they met Helen Webberley and many older trans people

Grim.

Doctor who ran illegal transgender clinic offering sex-change hormones to kids moves business abroad
www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/helen-mike-webberley-gender-gp-16297750

@TorkTorkBam - completely so. Even worse because puberty blockers have a big effect on bone density. Which might recover once male hormones are started. Might.

@DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult

Did you end up getting any help elsewhere?

I had to work 4 jobs to pay for a private therapist. My child is now an adult, and looks set to go down the route of hormones and surgery, but they are extremely grateful that I gave them that option and that I was honest about all of the negative side effects. My child is 100% fully informed, although any negative effects are completely glossed over in the clinics for children.

Puberty blockers were referred to as 'thinking time'.

You did the right thing. I'm glad your child appreciates that. Some will want to transition still when they are adults and others will not which is why it's always best to wait for them to make the decision when they are fully informed and old enough to do so.

I would love to know what proportion of families are advised by Mermaids that the child is not trans, that something else is going on.

I would love to know how often Mermaids contact social services and others in response to any worrisome things that come out.

We know from the Tavistock that children who reject their body due to probable sexual abuse have presented as having dysphoria. I would thus expect similar cases to have made it to Mermaids. I would expect them to have contacted social services / police accordingly given they are deeply concerned with the mental health and well being of young people.

In addition, I haven't seen much from Mermaids about how they deal with the parents who are homophobic and are trying to trans the gay out of their child. We know it happens sadly. How often do Mermaids spot it? How do they train their staff to detect it? What do they do if they suspect disguised homophobia?

I'm not seeing much public material from them along the lines of "how to know you are not trans and you are going through something else difficult and here's how you can get help for that instead"