ROGD - how do you cope?

[contactusdeletus]

Basically.

How do you cope when a teen family member goes full ROGD? It's happening to me right now and I'm honestly not sure how much more of this I can take.

Not my child, so what I can actually do to control the situation is limited. There is just so much I hate about this. The fear for him is top of the list, but it's also getting harder and harder to be around him. I just can't take the constant self-deception, the rewriting of his childhood to fit a trans narrative, and the constant, low-level emotional manipulation. I feel like I'm being guilt-tripped at every turn. Every conversation feels like an attempt to get me to pity him, then give the correct, affirmative, love-bomb response. I know I should rise above it, but I hate the way he's treating me. I hate the side of him this is bringing out, and I can't enjoy spending time with him anymore.

I know he's in the thick of it right now and I'm hoping this will pass. But it's a hard line to walk and I can feel it taking a toll on my mental health too. Would really appreciate any coping strategies

I have experienced this with two of my kids. I have to have my own support from a GC therapist to cope. It's a complete mind-fuck. I feel very distanced from currently experiencing ROGD child. He in turn despises my so-called bigotry. It's a nightmare.

In terms of what you can do, try to stay connected. Offer other conversations or experiences that have nothing to do with gender. Try to connect over music, hobbies etc. Don't confront but don't affirm. Practice active listening.

I did all this the first time round, and for the first year or so the second. It helps maintain sanity + relationship.

For yourself, talk with friends on the same wave length. Redirect yourself when ruminating. Keep contact with ROGD kid time-limited and activity based.

Maybe don't force your opinions on them. Maybe agree to meet half way. They are more likely to listen then.

What is the half-way position between "I'm a girl" and "No you're not" ?

she is identifying as a girl. That's her right. She is your child.

My DB and his wife have done pretty much as Black describes for the last 6 or 7 years, after initially properly freaking out for a year, when DNiece developed ROGD in her early teens, likely as effect of social contagion (several girls in year also did). DB and DSil have gone all out to support ungendered hobbies and leisure activities (scouting, golfing, kayaking etc), as a way of centering the individual, providing distraction from fixating on trans identity, as well as encouraging study of subjects DNiece is passionate about at school and subsequently college, irrespective of gender feels, and focussing on keeping the relationship good. It's been relentless, and very much how you describe it. They have also ensured DNiece has received excellent ongoing support with Aspbergers, anxiety and depression. They haven't affirmed, but rather consistently

chickenyhead
OP knows humans can't change sex. That is her right. The child is not hers.
I wish I had some great advice for you.
I would respect the name change and reluctantly the pronoun but would pull them up on the rewriting of history.

she is identifying as a girl. That's her right. She is your child.

And the OP has the right not to have to participate in the child's fantasy of being a girl.

Forcing other people to pretend you are the opposite sex isn't a right.

(sent too soon)
...empathised with the discomfort and disorientation of said dysphoria. Luckily, DNiece, who completed social transitioning a couple of years ago, got cold feet watching a couple of her friends start hormone treatment and undergo mastectomies, and seems to have settled into being a butch lesbian instead this year.

Yes, that would be midway, history cannot rightly be changed.

Just starting this myself. Watching with interest. Wishing you strength.

I would be trying to talk more, car rides side by side after something fun, because my personal experience ( there may well be many many other experiences ) is that type of problem came from a place of distress and turmoil and bullying and being unable to fit in due to some oddities of me being me

And strictly, the child can identify as a girl, but they can't actually be a girl

@BlackWaveComing

I have experienced this with two of my kids. I have to have my own support from a GC therapist to cope. It's a complete mind-fuck. I feel very distanced from currently experiencing ROGD child. He in turn despises my so-called bigotry. It's a nightmare.

In terms of what you can do, try to stay connected. Offer other conversations or experiences that have nothing to do with gender. Try to connect over music, hobbies etc. Don't confront but don't affirm. Practice active listening.

I did all this the first time round, and for the first year or so the second. It helps maintain sanity + relationship.

Thank you

I'm doing my best to stay connected with him but it is difficult. I don't see him as often as I'd like, and coronavirus has only made things harder in that respect. It's not like I can take him out bowling or anything to try and take his mind off it. Even if I could, I've tried for years to get him to come out of his shell a bit more and he's just not interested. He's autistic and basically has just one thing he's interested in: video games. From what I've seen, he spends about ten hours a day, minimum, playing these things. I've tried to get him into reading or talk to him about music or animals or other, more positive things, but it just doesn't seem to stick. It lasts about a minute and then we revert to one-sided conversations about video games. Don't get me wrong, it's preferable to the MRA phase he went through a few years ago where he would try to railroad me into angry conversations about how feminists were stupid and were ruining the world. But there's only so far I can go in engaging with the video game monomania. Even if I wanted to, I frankly don't have the time to buy a console and try to get into this myself. And I don't really feel I should have to in order to maintain a relationship with him.

Not that the video game thing really matters now. It's still an obsession with him, don't get me wrong, but the number one topic of conversation now is all things trans. It's exhausting.

I haven't been confronting. I've done my best to implement a policy of "let's agree to disagree" while still telling him I love him and will continue to love him, even if he does transition. But when he starts talking about gendered souls and how hormones can change the shape of the male pelvis, I have to bite my tongue. There's nothing I can say to that that won't provoke an argument. And it's just unrelenting on his side. He's trying to browbeat me into having some genderist epiphany, and I'm trying not to feed the beast. It doesn't make for easy interactions. I'm starting to feel like he's lost to me.

@chickenyhead

she is identifying as a girl. That's her right. She is your child.

Not my child, as others have stated. But I was very close to this child when he was growing up, and was a caregiver when his parents were going through various issues. They've since split and moved away, so I don't see him or them as often as before.

Whether you believe in transgender children or not, I have a mountain of evidence to suggest that's not what's going on here. The child is autistic. He has social anxiety and depression. Hasn't been to school since he was nine years old. Has no friends, no job, no hobbies beyond video games. He also has a poor relationship with his mother, who refused to have him live with her after the divorce and who has made multiple comments in my hearing about how she hates the way boys smell, girls are just easier to deal with, the energy is so much better in an all-female house, etc. She's entitled to her opinions, of course, but it doesn't take a genius to see how the child might be interpreting all of this.

(For the record, I don't think she's behind his sudden push for transition, but I do think she's encouraging it by giving him the response he craves. She's fully on board, loves the idea of a trans kid and is very much playing by the affirmation playbook.)

There was never the slightest, tiniest, minutest hint this child was trans. I don't doubt he believes what he's feeling is real, but I really question where it's come from. It's not as if he's always felt this way, or as if the feelings are persisting despite an otherwise happy life. Am I really supposed to ignore the red flags here and assume he knows best? How can you justify that?

It's his special interest right now, it sounds like. Can you approach this more from that direction? More from a 'relationships don't thrive when one person's special interest is the only topic of discussion' type way?

I understand the feeling that he is lost. You may need to dial back person to person contact for now for your own sake. Go small and frequent. Text a funny meme, or funny picture, brief greetings etc. Game reviews, photos are good small connectors too.

The message you want to send is 'I'm setting a boundary here by stepping back from the power play around gender, because it's bad for us both, but I am still here and I care.'

Sorry, I was thinking you were an Aunt for some reason and not in the home with the child. If you are in the home, same applies. Matter of fact and kind about day to day things, boundary re angry gender discussions, use texts or messaging to convey non-confrontational care and connection.

I have a tiny bit of experience with autism, it's years ago so I have no idea what the current advice is, and it was with a much younger child, but I was taught to join them in what they were doing. This will prove difficult of course but maybe you can join in without agreeing?

I can't say I'd enjoy the video game chat either but it was also a fixation with the child I knew. I've no idea if he grew out of it but it was a way of connecting. Maybe there is a gentle way of steering the conversation to being more a critical thinking POV? And then it can be applied to trans stuff a bit later? I imagine this will be quite a while before the sunlight gets through. I remember the one sided nature of conversations and how exhausting it was so I have no doubt it would be difficult and I imagine you've already tried, but I do hope you can find a way though.

The autism and the people he is meeting online via the video games is very worrying.

Also thrilled your DNiece youweregreat has come to realise she's happy being a butch lesbian.

Good luck OP, I hope you find some support in RL too.

I can't help with your question, but just wanted to say that if he's in a reasonably big town they might have a gaming cafe or similar place with regular events that you could encourage him to go to so he has an opportunity to make offline friends.

It's exhausting dealing with someone with autism who has a hyper focused special interest, it really is. They just talk AT you, hours if you let them. It's doubly hard when it's about a subject you fundamentally disagree on so I completely sympathise.

Keep the contact short but frequent. I find that repeating back what they say in a neutral voice helps to shorten the conversation. I also do a lot of "oh really?" and "gosh" and "wow" and "that's interesting."

Good luck OP.

As OhHolyJesus says join him in his world, the video gaming one, but expand on it to bring it into the real world. Would you be able to engage him in something like giving his bedroom a video game makeover or maybe just painting a wall mural for either your home or his?

@BlackWaveComing Not his Aunt but that's actually the nearest analogue I can find for our relationship. I did a lot of childcare when he was younger and since he moved away my role has been that of the fun aunt / emotional support. I've noticed he tests out behaviour a lot on me - if he's angry at his mum but doesn't dare rock the boat with her, he tends to take it out on me. If his Dad is being too lenient and he's craving a boundary, he'll often pick a fight with him or push a boundary with Dad in front of me. I often think he's hoping I'll step in and do something, but the trouble is his parents don't listen to me, and I risk losing what contact I have with him if I'm too critical of their parenting.

It's a delicate situation.

Re: setting boundaries - what do you do when the child just ignores your every attempt? Every time I say "I don't think we should talk about this" or just try to ignore the trans propaganda being sent to my phone, it lasts maybe an hour or a day and then he tries again. I'm not sure how to actually enforce this boundary without cutting off communication entirely. Which I don't really want to do, especially because I suspect he's pushing boundaries to see if I will give up on him. If that makes sense. But it's increasingly hard to deal with on an interpersonal level, and tbh I find the lack of willingness to respect someone else's boundary a bit concerning.

Re: the video game monomania - I've tried to make him see that meaningful relationships with others have to be two-sided. You need to take an interest in others too, it can't be all me me me. But I'm hamstrung here too, because the attitude of his parents is very much that this self-absorption is "just the way he is" and "just the autism" and that basically there's nothing to be done and we just have to put up with it. I'm really worried for his adult life and feel like this can't be all we can hope for from him? But I'm all alone in wanting or expecting more from him, it seems.

My heart goes out to anyone also in this situation.

While I am not sure exactly how relevant my experience might be to your situation, for me, this stuff is the hardest parenting has been. It is emotionally exhausting and a marathon not a sprint, so I would advise anyone starting out to try to pace themselves.

'Put on your own oxygen mask first' before helping a child. Self care is sooo important because it takes very little until everything is revolving around the ROGD kid.
Instead, make the effort to actively build in things that bring you joy and that give you life.

Try to have a consistent approach with your partner.

Focus on any other kids, to make sure they are coping OK and are able to talk about how they feel. Their history is also being rewritten and they need to be able to call BS, where necessary. "No, you didn't 'always love' High School Musical. You chose to head off upstairs to play with your Bionicles when it was on and that was also fine."

It's not easy but, while being sympathetic to the dysphoria, aim to be the Upholder of Truth and the Bringer back to Reality.

Sound out a couple of people in real life to whom you can chat freely about the challenges.

If you find yourself spending a lot of time researching this topic, keep reminding yourself to make a distinction between the activists and your kid. Your kid is not Karen White. They are not Mermaids or Stonewall. Your kid's vulnerabilities have made this ideology seem appealing. They are still vulnerable.

Online ROGD support groups can help.

Consider 'muting' anyone who is over-excited about your son turning into your 'new daughter'. This is performative and about them, not you.

Avoid talking about gender to the ROGD kid as far as is humanly possible because any criticism of the general ideology is taken as a direct attack on their personal identity. This is very difficult when it has become their special interest.

Conversations with a male 'identifying as a woman' NEVER go well when you are on your period!

Instead, go all out to encourage critical thinking about things in general and call out any misogyny, homophobia, racism etc where you see it. Occasionally the cognitive dissonance will jar for them too.

It's not your fault.
A few years ago these kids might have been an emo or a goth or a hippy or a punk in order to express how 'not like the other kids' they were. They might have told you that they were gay. You would have been absolutely fine with that.

Now 'non conformity' (it is paradoxically super conformist to gender stereotypes) comes with the threat of a frightening dollop of hormones and serious surgery, with a side of authoritarian dogma. And yet somehow we are the creepy ones for being concerned about the loss of fertility, sexual pleasure and increased health risks...
We are officially in the upside-down.

If you had seen many (any?!) signs of gender non conformity in the years leading up to their trans declaration, then it would not look like ROGD.

This is what the more vocal trans activists don't understand: this is a NEW thing in these kids' lives.

Mine initially said he had started feeling dysphoric for "just a couple of months" during a period when we already knew he was going through social isolation, bullying and exam stress and spending a huge amount of time in his room online, (has ADD, highly likely ASD). Later on he realised that this was not the orthodox position and changed the narrative to one where he had 'always felt this way'.

As parents, we are more than aware of the bullying, the ASD, the AD(H)D, the other mental health issues and life stresses that have already made life difficult for these kids. They have enough on their plate already.

Transition therefore seems like a magic wand. All your problems will go away! Rewrite your past! Acceptance! Nothing you can do or say can be questioned because 'transphobia'!

The anguish for us comes because of the wholesale rejection of the old identity, which as typical loving parents we were part of co-creating, (modelling values, building happy memories etc.) In contrast, the brand new identity which denies the past and material reality, seems utterly inauthentic.

They may indeed no longer be a very nice person but they are a hurting person and somewhere in there still is the person you love.

Sounds like you are in a particularly tough position, OP.

Wonder if this article, which had been on the Autism Hampshire site before, might be interesting, even though it is mainly about girls.

www.bayswatersupport.org.uk/gender-issues-for-autistic-girls

she is identifying as a girl

No, HE is identifying as a girl. If he really was a girl he wouldn't need to identify as one would he?
And it's easy to say that's their right, but it's a lot more complicated when the person is a vulnerable autistic young adult. And they don't have the right to expect the rest of the world to adhere to their demands.

But I'm hamstrung here too, because the attitude of his parents is very much that this self-absorption is "just the way he is" and "just the autism" and that basically there's nothing to be done and we just have to put up with it.

His parents are doing him no favours with that attitude, he needs to learn social skills to the best of his ability. There absolutely is something to be done, of course it's easier just to blame the autism and not tackle the behaviour in question.

I agree with the other posters that it sounds like it's become his obsession/special interest. How long has he been interested in this stuff? For some autistic people certain obsessions can be like going through a phase. You're nuts about something for say a year, and then you suddenly lose interest. Like you've learnt everything, collected everything- and you're just done with it.

About the video games and trying to expand his interests, there are some great books adapted from games (stuff like Mass Effect), would that interest him? I know it's still game related but at least it's doing something different. What games does he like?

As parents, we are more than aware of the bullying, the ASD, the AD(H)D, the other mental health issues

Autism and ADHD aren't mental health issues. Your phrasing at the end there implies they are.