Census 2021

[Letmegetthisrightasawoman]

Reading another thread just now, it occurred to me that next year is census year. I had a look at the 2011 questionnaire, which asks for each respondent's sex, giving the options of male and female only. However, the census 2021 website says this (see pic). What on earth does this mean? Does anyone know whether the 2021 questionnaire includes questions about sex only, gender only or both? How likely would someone be to be fined for refusing to answer a question on gender? I will (hopefully!!!) have a newborn on census day, and the idea of allocating them a gender is hideous (as the social construct of gender is hideous)

Gaaah, wrong button!

My issue is that I would rather not answer any question about gender, so as to not lend legitimacy to the idea of gender identities, so merely answer other/ prefer not to say wouldn't cut it. Thoughts please!

It's a worry isn't it.
I think that if they do ask for "identify" and give lots of options, then a lot of people who didn't know about this debate might be surprised.
Don't know what I will answer.

If that is on it I will fill it with total bollocks because it will be meaningless anyway

"We also want everyone to be able to identify as they wish" - I've checked (it's here: census.gov.uk/about-the-census/about-census-2021/ ) and this sentence isn't under a specific section about gender or anything as I wondered.

With no context it seems a really bizarre thing to put in when describing a survey that is specifically about collecting hard data - "identify as they wish" almost seems like an invitation to make stuff up about yourself? Or is that just me? Yet on the same website they say clearly that

"It is an offence to supply false information or to not complete the census, and you could be fined up to £1,000. Some questions are clearly labelled as voluntary. It is not an offence if you do not answer these."

Didn't know it was an offence with a fine?!
I'm still not going to "identify" on it!

@DeaconBoo I know, it's really weird how it's just been chucked in there randomly, almost as though they had to include it? I guess the "it's an offence to supply false information" could be a get-out clause if they try to fine people for leaving the question blank...

If they clearly define how to identify yourself, I will happily do so. I am worried I will accidentally give false information (if it's not optional) by not knowing what certain terms mean.

I think it will definitely ask for sex but I think 'search as you type' probably means they have something smart about gender identity. I don't think they will throw a whole load of gender descriptors at the population, they risk a car crash and that would look very bad.

@grafittiartist

It's a worry isn't it. I think that if they do ask for "identify" and give lots of options, then a lot of people who didn't know about this debate might be surprised. Don't know what I will answer.

I'm concerned that having questions about gender/ gender identity on an official census form would legitimate gender ideology in the eyes of many, without raising awareness of the issues around it.

I think the huge worry is that they will conflate the gender and sex questions.

Perhaps by asking for sex but allowing people to self identify as whichever sex they choose. This renders the data collected in this field completely meaningless.

If they have a question about identifying as trans they need to provide the option to state that you don't believe. Like with religioun.

An obvious consequence could be if that transmen and non binary identified females are not recorded as female, there might not be enough future maternity provision, as the age demographics for trans identities are very different depending (ironically) on birth sex

@highame

I think it will definitely ask for sex but I think 'search as you type' probably means they have something smart about gender identity. I don't think they will throw a whole load of gender descriptors at the population, they risk a car crash and that would look very bad.

So do you think they will ask about sex and gender in the same question - as in you can answer that you are female/ trans/ male/ non-binary etc?

Good point. And lots of people
Might go along with it without realising the wider context and consequences.

Anyone think it's worth an email to find out what the questions about sex and gender will be?

@Letmegetthisrightasawoman not certain but when you look at why the census is done, they will have to ask sex as stillathing points out maternity is just one provision but it isn't just about the questions we need to know now, it's about the next 10 years. Gender needs to be known about (I'm guessing here) because of clinical needs as just one example. Also, because of transgender protected characteristic. They will also be making amendments so that at the census after, they will be able to track changes. My guess, nothing more

There are loads of threads about this.

they will include a question about sex which most people will answer without thinking but in fact there is a footnote saying you can answer this on how you "identify".

There will be a supplement question about gender.

Its a dog's dinner and will invalidate any data relating to crime, health, etc., etc., from 2021 onwards.

Cant remeber exactly but slightly different in Scotland.

This is a list of all the threads about the census (and a few stray items)

www.mumsnet.com/SearchArch?mustmatch=Census&dontmatch=&nickname=&src_displ_option=s_t_d_t&fromDate=01%2F01%2F19&toDate=18%2F08%2F20&topicmode=chs&chosentops=5365

And this one has links to a good article written by 3 women lawyers www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3947618-Domino-effects-the-implications-of-the-framing-the-sex-question-in-the-2021-census

@stumbledin thanks. A lot of those threads are quite old. I hadn't come across any threads on this issue in the past few months (I've only recently started following the feminism boards properly). Will have a look at some of them tomorrow. Thanks!

Sorry yes - I think the recent one was about requesting a paper census.

It's just seems that they have gone ahead despite any number of people pointing out the statistical problems (which you think they would worry about) as well as the implications for allowing people to choose their sex (even though most people wont be aware of this).

I think short of some sort of fund raising to start legal action it is done and dusted.

But maybe even at this late stage we should be writing to our MPs pointing out how flawed the census will be.

I have no recollection of ever filling in a census. If they are done every 10 years and you have to be 18+ then this must be my third. I've got a complete blank on it though. Did they used to be posted out? Is a hard copy rather than online still an option?

I've been thinking about the analogy with religious belief. It's like being asked "is your eternal soul: saved; damned; prefer not to say."

You can't tick "prefer not to say" when your actual response is "don't be bloody daft, there's no such thing."

“It's just seems that they have gone ahead despite any number of people pointing out the statistical problems (which you think they would worry about) as well as the implications for allowing people to choose their sex (even though most people wont be aware of this).”

I truly don’t understand this. The only thing I can think is that they believe numbers will be so small it won’t fuck things up too much, and that they consider that worthwhile given the fuss that will ensue if they decide on a fact-based question.

But we (and any sensible person) can see what a slippery slope that is.

And it is, of course, the slipperiest because it is giving in to a tiny proportion of people with very loud voices who don’t remotely care about the negative effect on others.

I don't know how they can think it won't be a statistical fuck up given the general public's penchant for mischief. I recall one year a ton of people stated Jedi as their religion.

So true- great analogy Diana

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/census-fears-over-gender-identity-rmx0gmzxq?fbclid=IwAR25LOW95NozrWmR1550uT0XZIdQoQyMQu2GAcbUuc8CKdFVvV57i38A9NI

This is an old Times Article Dec 2019 with lots of signatures. Just a couple of paragraphs before the sigs but might be of interest.