My workplace has been Stonewalled. Completely new policy released. If anyone objects to sharing facilities with a transgender individual of the opposite sex, they will be the ones asked to move.

[iexpectedthis]

I am considering posting the paragraph in question, but its obviously a bit outing as it's a massive corporation.

It talks about being sent to use facilities on another floor if you object, so I am sure they are thinking about their massive offices in London.

I don't feel it will affect me personally on a day to day basis, but I am feeling down on reading the whole policy full of assigned at birth and stereotypes.

I could see this coming as we have had a lot of Stonewall input on diversity days, presentations in London offices featuring Pip Bunce and visits from Scottish trans groups to educate us.

Just a bit of a vent and asking for any thoughts on whether/how to question or challenge this :(

The paragraph on use of facilities is extremely close to the wording of the guidelines. :(

It's honestly scary how many organisations have put this sort of thing in place with zero apparent thought about the effect on the protected characteristic of sex.

Op - it's where employers go for guidance - a trusted source of information. They clearly did not consider the impact on wome in their guidance.

The ACAS guidance includes use of showers which means where there are showers in the workplace male bodied people can use facilities for women.

The other thing about the guidance is to find out its status. It's not statutory, is it? And what happens if you don't follow non-statutory guidance?

If I had to sign off that policy, I'd be wanting legal opinion on how far I could rely on it, and if/how I might have to think about other groups and so on.

The ACAS guidance goes on about which (Trans) organisations they consulted, but is completely devoid of any idea that it might affect other employees.

I've browsed through it quickly and all the 'gender identity journey' stuff is the exact phrasing used at work.

The regulatory capture in this country has been massive - hence the ACAS "guidelines".
Of course, none of it takes into accounts competing rights as there's a hierarchy with (quelle surprise) men (mostly white) who self identify as women at the very pinnacle and all the other groups lurking somewhere underneath. That's why the court cases are so important - although given the levels of regulatory capture in the legal profession, I'm not convinced that they will succeed.

On a more positive note - as these organisations have been challenged about the legality, they've retreated and withdrawn guidance (eg the EHRC & the CPS to name 2 very influential groups).
It's almost as if they know that insisting that women & girls must undress in front of strange men, share prison cells, hospital wards, refuges and hand over their places in sport to men actually breaches women's rights. Funny that.

It is definitely regulatory capture

The Government Equalities Office, has produced very similar guidance here;
www.gov.uk/government/publications/recruiting-and-retaining-transgender-staff-a-guide-for-employers

Bear - agree legal advice is good to get when signing off policies, but some SMEs do not have the budget.

Furthermore if multiple government funded agencies are repeating the same guidance, and the CIPD are signposting members to stonewall, I get why employers use this guidance without considering the needs of women.

It doesn't make it right though.

@HepzibahGreen

Toilets have always been unisex really - like you said, men often pop into the women's if they want to, no one stops them.

No. That's NOT what I said. It is, in fact, the opposite of what I said!
Read carefully:
They made the toilets on our floor unisex.
THEN the men started using it.
Men, in my experience, have never "just popped into the ladies"! If the toilet had a dress shape on the door, no, they wouldn't go in. Even young lads know this. Don't walk into the ladies, and don't ever go in a ladies handbag . My sons would never do either, it's just drummed into most properly brought up males.
Men presenting as women have, in the past, sometimes used the women's toilets, but regular men? No.

Exactly! I can't remember ever encountering a male in a female toilet who wasn't (a) trans (b) mistaken and mortified or (c) under the age of about ten.

Where are these legions of men just merrily popping into the Ladies?

ACAS advisories give what they consider to be best practice rather than law.

I may be wrong but think HSE guidance, which is statutory, allows for unisex. Workplaces with only 2 or 3 employees often only have one toilet. Men’s toilets cannot be made unisex if they have urinals.

I don’t believe there is any provision in employment law for single sex provision, just adequate provision.

Also, by allowing a trans man to use a male toilet with urinals I suspect employers are breaking the law.

Unisex toilets are allowed but each toilet must be in a separate, lockable room. So standard row of cubicles in a women’s or men’s roiled cannot just be made unisex.

The Workplace (Health, Safety and Welfare) Regulations 1992

20
2) ... sanitary conveniences shall not be suitable unless—
...
C) separate rooms containing conveniences are provided for men and women except where and so far as each convenience is in a separate room the door of which is capable of being secured from inside.

@CrochetyCrochet

One approach would be not to challenge the whole identity thing (frustrating I know but at least it avoids the risk of being 'labelled') but ask how these changes are going to operate in practice.

Ask lots of awkward questions about the practicalities. It sounds as if there are a variety of workplaces (production sites, London office, regional offices?) which will have very different set-ups.

What about workplaces with insufficient facilities to have both mixed sex and single sex toilets easily accessible to employees? All employees? Every part of the site? Close enough for every employee to reach within designated break times?

What about toilets with urinals? They can't be designated mixed sex.

What about the availability of sanitary bins in all cubicles which may be used by women?

Is the workforce predominantly male or female, OP? That might make a difference to its impact.

I think something like this is the best idea - go through their proposals with a fine tooth-comb and check that they have also considered all the other protected characteristics - age; disability; (especially this one as it seems to get forgotten) gender reassignment; marriage and civil partnership; pregnancy and maternity; race; religion or belief; sex; sexual orientation. www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/part/2/chapter/1

Yes, can you write to HR and ask them if they are upholding the right to single sex provision and Wirth regards to the other protected characteristics under the Equality Act? Especially since not having single sex provision may also discriminate against eg. Muslim women. I sure hope they have some provision for breastfeeding women to express milk etc. as well that isn't in a unisex loo.

I'll have a look into it. Thanks for all advice.

Incidentally our equality policy lists gender instead of sex, quelle surprise. 🙄 There's another thing to inform them about. I'm sure they mean sex, I hope.

The new guidelines do actually correctly specify gender reassignment as the protected category. The glossary of terms of as full of shite as you'd imagine. The links to resources is every biased organisation you can think of, including Mermaids.

As a company, I don't think this will impact us massively, but then you look at Pips Bunce who is being held up as an example to us.

It looks like an employee would have to formally request support as a trans employee, so possibly changing gender (🙄) in the HR record. I'm not sure how popular this will be. No supporting information needs to be provided with the form, so you just have to declare yourself as how you want to be referred to. I liked the bit on the form for the manager to decide if anyone night need --re education- training to deal with the situation.

As a company inclusivity is a big thing just now. They do on the face of it offer support to women, minorities, people with disabilities people who aren't neurotypical and there's a rainbowy LGBT+ group. The intranet is often full of inspirational stories about the various company initiatives and successes.

I'm a cynic though and feel a lot of it is to look good, e.g. trying to get into Stonewall's top 100 employers and similar lists to show their good equality stats.

I shall come back and update if I'm brave enough to do anything.

I'm away to go back to my normal name before I mess it up .

@teawamutu

I have encountered men in women's toilets on multiple occasions. The most recent I walked into the ladies with my then 3yo son, to be greeted with the sight of a clearly male person taking a piss with the cubicle door wide open and his foot up against the wall behind the cistern. Even my 3yo asked what's that man doing in here? If a 3yo can grasp it, why can't adults? I was too intimidated to challenge it, so just took my son in another cubicle, and didn't come out until I was sure the man had left. I complained to the bartender but he just shrugged and said what can you do.

Yet, when I was at a women's only event during a break everyone rushed to the women's toilet (50 women descended on 4 cubicles). As there were no males at the event I went to the male toilets and made use of the facilities to skip the queue. When I came out, a security guard for the building was waiting to chastise me and threatened to remove me from the event if I used the male toilet again.

As a company, I don't think this will impact us massively, but then you look at Pips Bunce who is being held up as an example to us.

The idea of this is just

'Pips' was a speaker at an inclusivity talk at an office down south a few years ago. They've included the 'amazing' link so we can watch it again. 🙄

Invitation to Stonewall provided training arrived today. :( Expected outcomes below. I can't tell if it's compulsory, but I am pretty sure I already know all the terms and what organisations will be signposted. It's even live video training not just a self-study quiz. I think I'd need to mute my mic.

Expected outcomes:

Understand
• Giving an overview on key Terminology
• A short overview on identity and how this shapes individual experiences of the workplace and wider society

Explore
• An overview on the key issues that trans people face across society and in the workplace
• Defining transphobia – what this means and what it looks like
• Transphobia – the impact of negative behaviour on trans people in the workplace

Action
• How we can actively challenge transphobia in the workplace
• Some top tips on being a trans ally

Signposting
• We will give pointers to further research and resources (including books, articles, podcasts and video)
• Other organisations who can support

iexpectedthis could ask the question about those who visit the premises and how they are going to be made aware? Ask about risk assessments?

Is this meant to be about trans specifically or this is the general presentation from SW?

I'm not shocked but there is nothing on homophobia. I mean nothing at all.

I like noss's question. Women shouldn't have to discuss past sexual assault with a receptionist in order to assess whether they are ok to visit the ladies' loo in a bulking they are visiting for professional purposes.

Perhaps the live training is a good opportunity to ask some revealing questions - like "isn't it true that the great majority of transgender individuals nowadays do not have, and may have no intention of ever having, sex reassignment surgery?" And if any of your company's offices have single-sex changing rooms, you might follow the question up with, "Does being trans-inclusive imply that women in Company X should not feel uncomfortable or complain if they see a naked penis in Company X's female changing rooms, as long as that individual says they are trans?"

Or whatever question - it would be interesting to see how they answer, for one, and it would also give other people a sign that not everyone is gung ho with (all) aspects of the agenda being pushed.

How to actively challenge women feeling they have rights to privacy, dignity or inclusion in the workplace more like....

Well if it's been announced that women who can't access mixed sex provision will be asked to move, then approach management and ask ok, in compliance to their policy where is the designated loo for those women please?

Oh and add for management/HR benefit for the hard of thinking: as many of those women will be unable to access mixed sex facilities due to private circumstances and protected characteristics, those facilities will need to be made clearly known to all female staff. Since obviously it would be unacceptable to demand that those women have to 'out' themselves and share extremely sensitive information in order to be allowed to use a loo.

@SapphosRock You're joking yes?

Definitely worth making people aware that sex and gender cannot be used interchangeably.