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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Transgender Vikings

108 replies

Igneococcus · 16/08/2020 06:38

Because no woman ever, anywhere could possible be or have been a fighter:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/9d5d3654-de3c-11ea-a18f-15f41f6d2fa7?shareToken=e20112ff611d35bbb9ea3a4900f4b37f

OP posts:
NearlyGranny · 16/08/2020 09:59

Disney will be remaking Mulan next. 🙄

TreestumpsAndTrampolines · 16/08/2020 10:12

So by this reasoning, any woman who does a ‘mans job’ is likely to be trans? I worked as a Systems Developer so I must be transgender.

Yep - welcome to the club (as confirmed by stone wall's trans umbrella).

Please ignore the height/boobs/hips and two kids behind me saying "muuuuum, I'm huuungry" - I'm defo a bloke cos of job.

Cailleach1 · 16/08/2020 10:25

Well, what is good for the goose is good for the gander. Caesar and his dress (toga) was trans. All the Louis and their wigs, make-up and tights... etc. etc. Flipping heck, God / Jesus and even the angels are always portray in dresses.

Anyone who married a scot in his lovely kilt (probably the most gorgeous wedding outfit), I just want to ask, were you aware of the obvious implications? Not a fairly modern take on the Highlanders historical plaid, but now reduced to female dress.

NettleTea · 16/08/2020 10:32

similarly its been shown that women were also 'hunters' in hunter gatherer society
And women, most likely (from the shape of handprints) were painters in the prehistoric caves
And women were in equal positions of power in Minoan culture, if not IN CHARGE, with teenage girls as well as boys depicted vaulting over bulls.

History has, in the main, been written by men, through the eyes and experience of men. They have assumed that men have always been in charge and women in positions of subservience.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 16/08/2020 10:34

So, even when the bodies of said Transmaidens are confirmed XX ...

... I can't keep up! Ludicrous.

Steamfan · 16/08/2020 10:36

this might explain some it - the researcher quoted www.stonewall.org.uk/people/amy-jefford-franks

TheChampagneGalop · 16/08/2020 10:40

The icelandic sagas are full of shield maidens and Norse mythology has the valkyries.
Look at this cute little warrior figure from viking-era Denmark. Typical female knot hairstyle, but obviously a transman...!

Transgender Vikings
crunchermuncher · 16/08/2020 11:03

I've definitely seen blurb on the stone wall site arguing that Joan of Arc was trans.

Really pissed me off! Any woman that doesn't fit with the regressive gender stereotypes that they are peddling must be trans.

Fuck that. My son is really proud that his mum has studied martial arts and owns swords. He doesn't think this actually makes me his dad! But stone wall thinks I'm trans. FWIW I'm sitting here typing this in a pink fluffy bath robe. I'm not gender fluid, I'm a woman who likes what I like.

TheChampagneGalop · 16/08/2020 11:11

By the way, when the prestigious warrior grave from viking city Birka was revealed to be a woman's, there was a lot of opinionating from men that she hadn't actually been a warrior. The weapons? Just ceremonial, or something. Now they're transing her instead.
The patriarchal need to hide women's historical achievements is still ongoing. I'm going to buy "The Unwomanly Face of War" now.

JoysOfString · 16/08/2020 11:13

I wonder if Lady Fu Hao, Shang general, landowner, priestess and royal wife, was also “trans“. What happens if you fulfill a traditional feminine role and are also a kick-ass army leader? Hmmmmm? Maybe being trans trumps everything else

JoysOfString · 16/08/2020 11:22

It occurs to me that this ridiculous new definition of trans is actually trangress. Transgress the narrowest of gender identities, regressively I posed back in time even on societies that didn’t have the same gender role system, and you must have been trans. Especially if you’re female.

SocialMedea · 16/08/2020 11:23

Yep, Joan of Arc should be John of Arc.

I prefer Jonnie Darko.

TheChampagneGalop · 16/08/2020 11:25

I wonder if the samurai women who went out and fought instead of quietly comitting suicide when the enemy appeared to be winning were trans too?

ItalianHat · 16/08/2020 11:31

Well, apparently no woman ever did anything notable in history ever.

Or, if she did, she was really a man, born in the wrong body.

And anyway, Eve was made from Adam's rib, so there!

Urgh,this is puerile stuff but by gosh it makes me angry. Sexist bollocks

Imnobody4 · 16/08/2020 11:34

“We think the most likely explanation is that this was a female warrior, but there are other ways of reading this. It may have been someone who, in our terms, was a trans man, someone living as a man.”
Well by that level of reasoning all the Viking warriors were transwomen 'cos they wore eyeliner.

highame · 16/08/2020 11:36

@TheChampagneGalop It would be very interesting to see what Japanese women make of this 'women warriors' could be trans theory (and other Non Brit/US cultures) because I have a feeling the trans debate may not travel well in this context

JoysOfString · 16/08/2020 11:40

‘We think the most likely explanation is that this was a female warrior.” Most likely? FFS!

Female - tick
Evidently a warrior - tick

Omg - don’t forget the most important thing, could have been a TRANS MAN!

utter shite. Even if she could possible, by any reasonable demonstration, have been “living as a man”, she was still female and a warrior.

Lots of women have disguised themselves as men in the past for blindingly obvious reasons. Didn’t make them not female.

Deliriumoftheendless · 16/08/2020 11:44

@SocialMedea

Yep, Joan of Arc should be John of Arc.

I prefer Jonnie Darko.

I take my hat off to you for that joke.
PastMyBestBeforeDate · 16/08/2020 11:55

So by this reasoning, any woman who does a ‘mans job’ is likely to be trans? I worked as a Systems Developer so I must be transgender.

You've created a bit of a paradox there. If the women working in tech can reasonably assumed to be transmen and if you believe that TWAW, doesn't it therefore follow that all the late transitioning TW working in IT are therefore TM and if TMAM then the late transitioning TW are in fact men.

thehumanformerlyknownasfemale · 16/08/2020 12:05

I would say you couldn't make this shit up-but here is some crackpot making this shit up.

How about all the women currently in the forces? Are they really men because they're out fighting and not womanning at home in the kitchen?

Load of sexist bollocks.

nauticant · 16/08/2020 12:15

In some strongly gendered societies, in order for women to step out of their gender roles they had to constitute a separate gender class. However, this class identity was most likely an imposition put upon them, and something that they would have little say in.

According to the new thinking, this then gets viewed through the gender identity ideology lens which says that someone having a gender role must also have an internal sense of having the corresponding gender identity. In other words, they must be trans.

It's the difference between a woman knowing she's a woman but also knowing that she has to put up with being labelled in some way, that is, an identity imposed from outside, and a woman labelling herself as having a trans identity because that's intrinsic to the gender role, that is, an identity self-generated from inside. Good luck with proving the latter of these. However, as we see time and time again, in the gender identity ideology no proof is ever required for any conclusion that abides by the precepts of the ideology.

merrymouse · 16/08/2020 12:22

In some strongly gendered societies, in order for women to step out of their gender roles they had to constitute a separate gender class. However, this class identity was most likely an imposition put upon them, and something that they would have little say in.

Even now, as evidenced in Caroline PP's book, when 'male' is the default for a role, all the equipment will be designed to suit men.

ErrolTheDragon · 16/08/2020 12:24

Excellent analysis, nauticant.

It's also a sort of - shock, horror - "cultural imperialism" - insisting on interpreting a different culture through the narrow lens of some early 21st C westerners.

nauticant · 16/08/2020 12:28

this might explain some it - the researcher quoted www.stonewall.org.uk/people/amy-jefford-franks

They've set up a journal to promote this genderwoowoo in Viking studies:

kyngervi.wordpress.com/2018/10/04/amy-jefford-franks-editor/

Having looked around on Google it seems there's a growing enthusiasm for "queering" archaeology and history for those periods where there are no substantial contemporaneous historical records.

BovaryX · 16/08/2020 12:32

you deny both the richness of women’s history and their agency, even repressive cultures. You also deny the richness and strangeness of history itself, by suggesting that all times and cultures must reflect only what you believe now, in this minute

I think that is a really interesting point. This desire to retrofit history through the fixations of the excitable proponents of the Ministry of Truth is another Year Zero impulse. It is not only totalitarian, but narcissistic. Trying to impose contemporary preoccupations on the past is indicative of a profound imaginative and critical failure to understand historical events and figures.

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