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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

How do you know I don't identify as female?

50 replies

FreezerBird · 11/08/2020 14:18

I don't know if this has been mentioned on another thread or if it belong with the 'this never happens' thread but I find this absolutely chilling.

A woman patted down by male officers at the Portland protests. An observer asks if a female officer is present and one of them says "how do you know I don't identify as a female?".

How do you know I don't identify as female?
OP posts:
FreezerBird · 11/08/2020 14:20

Link to tweet with video:

twitter.com/Shauna_Sowersby/status/1292388283054342144?s=09

OP posts:
BaronEssoStation · 11/08/2020 14:38

What I take from that story is the officers think that self-ID is a joke. It is of course, but..

I say "officers" but more likely they sound like unprofessional wanklords who, hopefully, have been filmed and will receive the stiffest punishment possible for their wankery. It won't be stiff enough for me tho' I'll bet.

Rant over - it's hot isn't it?

WeeBisom · 11/08/2020 15:52

Yes, the problem with moving from sex to gender identity is that gender identity is in people's heads. We simply don't know if they are being sincere or not. This police officer might be gender fluid and might be feeling particularly womanly that day, and who can seriously challenge him? This is why it's so important to preserve the concept of sex.

CharlieParley · 11/08/2020 16:04

You're right, FreezerBird it is chilling. That's because the detained person has the right - in law - to have an officer of the same sex present (which, let's face it, offers little enough protection from sexual harassment). Which is more important for the safety of female than male detainees.

But when a feeling is believed to override the material reality that the law is based on, the law too is overridden.

TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross · 11/08/2020 16:16

Well, this is the road we are travelling now. The silencing and threatening of those who articulate concern about or opposition towards the right to identify how one chooses, and to have access to whichever spaces in society one chooses leads us to this. If we can't challenge men who identify as women gaining access to women's changing rooms, women's prisons, women's refuges, women's sports, how can we challenge this?

Purpleartichoke · 11/08/2020 16:30

Isn’t that what the protesters wanted?

OvaHere · 11/08/2020 16:40

@Purpleartichoke

Isn’t that what the protesters wanted?
Well yes. This is the end game they want. Sucks for the millions of women who never consented to it though.
GrandmaMazur · 11/08/2020 16:43

But that would never happen if self ID was law here, right?

TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross · 11/08/2020 17:12

Many of the comments underneath the post on Twitter are basically variations on "Well, this is what you wanted".

ScrimpshawTheSecond · 11/08/2020 17:27

Yep, here's your right side of history, wokesters.

(Noting idly that ever-helpful autoconk wants 'wokesters' to read as 'molesters'.)

BelleHathor · 11/08/2020 18:12

I was always told be careful what you wish for, oh well 🤷. Also after seeing the way the crowd abused an elderly woman the other night my sympathy is at zero
m.youtube.com/watch?v=8ufpEav-CuY

Kaiserin · 11/08/2020 19:33

I think what this highlights, is that gender identity is not a true "identity" in the mathematical sense.

An identity works like this:
If A=B, then B=A (an vice-versa)
It can be something that makes an individual unique (your NHS number)
Or it can be a shared characteristic within a group of individuals ("all the people named Bob")
In either case, the identity relationship is reciprocal ("if my first name is the same as yours, then your first name is the same as mine")
That's how you can use it to define consistent sets of individuals based on "sameness". Sameness must be mutual, regardless of what criteria of sameness you pick.

The officer may or may not identify as female (unknowable)
But the bottom line here, is the protester does not identify him as female. She does not identify him, as being like her (part of the same class of individuals). This "gender identity" feeling is not just unknowable, it is also often not mutual.

In other words, "gender identity" is a logical fallacy.

(also, is this particular case... how would the "female-identifying" officer know if the protester identifies as a non-binary individual constantly oscillating between male and female, and therefore, unpattable? The legal ramifications of gender identity are endless...)

BluebonicPlague · 11/08/2020 21:58

Thanks for posting that - I was looking for it to post on It Never Happens, and couldn't find it again.

Horrific.

What I found most chilling was the way all the other officers laughed, and the unmitigated misogynistic mockery in the comments. All to the effect 'you lefties got what you deserved' and 'haha, wimmin losers!' When I saw this Twitter thread there wasn't a single voice raised in support of the woman.

NiceGerbil · 11/08/2020 22:11

There's a police officer in the UK who is gender fluid or similar and has a warrant card for male and female I believe. Presumably meaning they can conduct searches on both sexes including the opposite one.

Clymene · 11/08/2020 22:14

This was inevitable : the woke have given up women's rights as sacrificial lambs and the right are slaughtering them with gusto.

I feel so sorry for those women who trusted

ScrimpshawTheSecond · 11/08/2020 22:31

the unmitigated misogynistic mockery in the comments. All to the effect 'you lefties got what you deserved' and 'haha, wimmin losers!' When I saw this Twitter thread there wasn't a single voice raised in support of the woman.

Yes, it's a stunningly effective way to remove women of all their rights, and this is a very, very stark illustration of it. I wonder if it will be a bit of lightbulb moment for some people? Because as awful as the policeman's remark is, it's perfectly legal and aligns perfectly with gender ideology. It's the precisely logical endpoint.

highame · 11/08/2020 22:33

I feel so sorry for those women who trusted

I don't, ignorance is not a good defence. It didn't take much to know that 'gender' was a house of cards.

nancybotwinbloom · 11/08/2020 22:37

Still can't get my head round this.

Sex is biological
Gender is how you feel

Why are sex segregated places an issue.

Everyone, tra's included have said sex and gender are different.

We identify same sex spaces so how does gender even come into it when talking about sex based rights?!

nancybotwinbloom · 11/08/2020 22:37

Do the tra's want to replace sex with gender?

NiceGerbil · 11/08/2020 23:24

Yes Nancy

There are a variety of beliefs

At the more reasonable end, sex is real, gender id is important to a lot of people, let's see how we can cater for both

Then two sightly different ideas at the other end

One is both exist but gender id is much more important than sex, and sex should be replaced with internal gender id in everything

The other is that people actually are the sex they identify as (not sure how this works in practice with people who have genders that change back and forth, or non binary people. I think it's they should be considered the sex they id with at the time, how that works for eg prisons or long term hospital stays I'm not sure. Sports and changing etc it is that people can and do switch back and forth as they feel).

DidoLamenting · 11/08/2020 23:51

@BaronEssoStation

What I take from that story is the officers think that self-ID is a joke. It is of course, but..

I say "officers" but more likely they sound like unprofessional wanklords who, hopefully, have been filmed and will receive the stiffest punishment possible for their wankery. It won't be stiff enough for me tho' I'll bet.

Rant over - it's hot isn't it?

Possibly the Portland police are sick to the back teeth with these protesters. This result will almost certainly be what the protesters wanted - until it actually affects one of them.
GennyCrabby · 11/08/2020 23:59

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NiceGerbil · 12/08/2020 00:00

Thing is this is where the misogyny of the left and the misogyny of the right and TBF the misogyny of the middle collide

With a massive fuck you and back in your box to women from all sides.

No strain of politics gives a fuck about women except for feminism. Which of course isn't a party that gets voted in anywhere in the world, AFAIK.

NiceGerbil · 12/08/2020 00:01

And of course loads of people who claim to be feminists support it too, hello WEP.

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