'Polarised' debate on gender recognition is harming UK, says equalities chief

[MondayYogurt]

Observer article www.theguardian.com/society/2020/aug/08/polarised-debate-on-gender-recognition-is-harming-uk-says-equalities-chief

The departing chair of the Equality and Human Rights Commission has said the polarising debate around transgender rights will be damaging to the country if it continues.
In his final interview, David Isaac, who left his position on Saturday after more than four years in post, urged supporters and opponents of gender self-identification to recognise that they had much in common.

@aliasundercover

Where a full gender recognition certificate is issued to a person, the person’s gender becomes FOR ALL PURPOSES the acquired gender

You change your gender all you like sweetie - nobody knows what the fuck it means anyway.

Just for the record though, you cannot change your sex. Nobody can.

I'll clarify for you.

Basically gender is between the ears. Sex is between the legs, (because that's how the midwife determines sex).

To be more precise sex is just a collection of body parts and gender is the true identity.
.

The government needs to acknowledge that sex and gender are completely different and separate them in any legislation.

^^This

[quote ScrimpshawTheSecond]David Isaac was Chair of Stonewall from 2003 to 2012.

In 2015, Stonewall campaigned to remove single-sex exemptions in the Equality Act.

womansplaceuk.org/references-to-removal-of-single-sex-exemptions/[/quote]
I find it difficult to believe that he doesn't know what his former org has been up to since he left. The alternative is that he knows but doesn't give a shit.

Either way, good riddance.

@JamieLeeCurtains- yes if you look at the Hansard debates there was a huge amount of concern from the Lords that their daughters could transition to men and disinherit the sons. So if you are a man who transitions to a woman you get to keep your inheritance and titles etc. It's ironic because it is, as you say, one of the small areas where trans men would actually gain a tangible advantage.

[quote WeeBisom]@JamieLeeCurtains- yes if you look at the Hansard debates there was a huge amount of concern from the Lords that their daughters could transition to men and disinherit the sons. So if you are a man who transitions to a woman you get to keep your inheritance and titles etc. It's ironic because it is, as you say, one of the small areas where trans men would actually gain a tangible advantage.[/quote]
Especially as you don't have to actually transition to identify as trans, you only have to state an intention to. Good job the old boys club had the foresight to protect their interests eh?

"To be more precise sex is just a collection of body parts and gender is the true identity."
So gender is just what we usually call personally? So then what are people transing to or from?

Yet having different body parts makes such a huge difference

It's why women are more likely to be killed in car accidents
It's why women are more likely to be rapes
It's why women have additional rights to sex separated sports , it's why women have rights to allow sex separated facilities, all to enable them to have human rights

Women's rights are human rights, but they belong to people with women's body parts because that's the basis on which women face harm

Either that or you better persecute me for consistently using the facilities that don't match my gender but only my sex.
Yay better cut my pay by 10%, because if that adjustment was gender based not sex based then I didn't deserve it
You can explain to DH that he is gay

I must be chopped liver then because I don't have a gender.

Is overheated grumpy person a gender? Cause that is my true identity at the moment.

In practice a lot of the exceptions can only be enforced by an intrusive physical examination and all the outrage that could cause. Hence there are a lot of "stealth" trans people
Please do explain the stealth part. I'm failing in understanding that bit.

gender is the true identity.

Some people describe their identity in terms of gender.

However, as nobody can see your internal identity, it isn’t relevant to equalities law. People experience prejudice because of structural exclusion and the perceptions of others, not their own sense of self.

By "in common" does he mean "Share your space and shut your mouth." ?

Gender is a social construct made up of performative stereotypes. I’ve had my hair to my waist & worn high heels, and equally it’s been an inch long and I’ve worn a suit. Still a woman.

It is literally impossible for any man to know how it feels to be a woman. They can only imagine what it feels like same as I can only imagine what it feels like to be a man. I can’t ever know because I’m not a man

Debate is never a problem

Suppressing debate is

Just thought that if this had been the Guardian rather than the Observer whether they would have even included the observation that some women's groups have concerns about proposed changes to the GRA!

Not sure if there is a longer version of this interview elsewhere but if not this man comes over as being totally clueless.

But sometimes I think this is why peoplel ike this get jobs like this. They just dont understand so just sail through.

The more worrying aspect is that he was appointed given his previous involvement with Stonewall - as single issue campaign is not a qualification for overseeing equality for all.

However, as nobody can see your internal identity, it isn’t relevant to equalities law.

Well, except Layla Moran, with her ability to see souls. But that would depend on her being present at the time.

@Gurufloof

In practice a lot of the exceptions can only be enforced by an intrusive physical examination and all the outrage that could cause. Hence there are a lot of "stealth" trans people Please do explain the stealth part. I'm failing in understanding that bit.

Think of all the people you meet, work or socialise with. It could be your doctor or dentist or optician or the supermarket checkout worker. Any one of them could have a trans history but they are not going to tell you or anyone. That is their private business. That is stealth.

The more worrying aspect is that he was appointed given his previous involvement with Stonewall - as single issue campaign is not a qualification for overseeing equality for all.

I agree.

I do think an awful lot of what is being called 'gender' atm is just personality, to be honest. What you like doing, how you feel about the world, the friends you choose, the books you read, the hobbies you pursue, the career you follow, your sexual orientation... None of that adds up to 'gender' does it?

When they start labelling 100+ different genders you have to know it's personality, really. We're all different individuals. Why put labels on it?

Given the breadth of the trans umbrella I’m certain that I have for example come across men who cross dress in private. I don’t give af about that - what they do in private is up to them as is what they do in public providing they’re not trying to access single sex spaces

@Ereshkigalangcleg I trust you are right, people do don't they

Think of all the people you meet, work or socialise with. It could be your doctor or dentist or optician or the supermarket checkout worker. Any one of them could have a trans history but they are not going to tell you or anyone. That is their private business. That is stealth.

If it's my doctor, it's not just their private business. If I ask for a female doctor to perform an intimate examination, I expect that doctor to actually be female, not a man who wants to be a woman. If such a doctor turned out to be male, I wouldn't view this as 'stealth', I would view it as fraud, or possibly sexual assault.