Just been kicked out of a FB group

[FrenchtoEnglish]

I was in a FB group (a French one). It was basically a hippy/vegan/spiritual/woke group for parents (serves me right for soddingwell joining!). There was a post about epidurals. To have one or not to have one. A woman wrote something along the lines of "there's a lot of pressure on women to breastfeed and to have a drug-free labor. The most important thing is that the baby comes out and is loved. Women shouldn't put so much pressure on themselves." She was asked by admin to remove all mentions of the word "woman" and replace it with "person" because it was an inclusive group and that trans and non-binary people also give birth.

I wrote how frightening it was that the word "woman" was disappearing and then mock-chastised then for using the word "midwife" everywhere and not changing it to "midperson" because "cis" men and non-binary people and transmen also did this job and that they should check themselves.

Kicked out.

I'm furious. I honestly don't know what to do. I live in the middle of rural France and this whole debate has never really affected me on a personal level, but I have a little girl who's about to start school. I'm worried that this is the sort of shit that's going to go down in biology classes. I'm scared for the future. I really am. How the fuck are these people getting away with it?

The tide will turn. It is turning. Hold on, and insist on seeing any and all materials that will be used in your DD's classroom. That's about all you can do for now.

That group is a lost cause at the moment, but the fever will pass. Midwife (in English) means 'with woman' so it would indeed have to change to 'midperson'! What is the French equivalent?

I'm not the OP but midwife in French is sage femme - literally wise woman!

What a horrible stupid idiotic situation that we cannot use the word woman any more!!!!! My sympathies OP.

Sage-femme in French. "Wise woman". It needs to be "sage-personne".

Dickheads.

The thing is, I really don't want to be a transphobe. I've never been "phobe" anything in my life! I've tried my hardest to see it from the other side, but I just can't. I just can't see the word "woman" disappear.

You can have male midwives. They're kind of missing the point by a mile in the name of 'kindness'. Well done for challenging this though.
There was a good post recently about this aspect of language and how some aspects of modern discourse are treating words themselves - however they are used as being inherently bad if you're talking about something 'difficult'. It's a very sad state of affairs that the word woman/wife is being twisted into being perceived as transphobic.

Even the guardian has now decided that saying "women plus others with a uterus" is acceptable

The origin of the word midwife in English is “mid wyfe” = a “with woman”. A person who is “with a woman” as she gives birth.

Ljósmóðir - mother of light - midwife in Icelandic

Officially the most beautiful word in the Icelandic language (they did a poll a few years ago)

Its origins are unclear, but the word “light” might be connected to the name Lucina, the Roman goddess who assists women in childbirth. Regardless, the concept of a mother of light makes sense when we think of midwives as the individuals who bring light into the world—the brightness of new life and a fresh hope for the future.

grapevine.is/mag/articles/2017/06/02/word-of-the-issue-ljosmodir/

Midwife - with woman

But does 'woman' in this case refer to the woman labouring or the woman assisting?

OP you stood up for someone posting something reasonable. Others will see and note it. On the whole I think sense will prevail. Well done for standing for the word "woman". It is crazy that this sentence ever needs to be written. I think others will see and quietly support you, even if they are scared to say it. Hold your head up and carry on with your business. It will blow over if enough of us speak sense over time. It is a thank you from me for doing that.

Thanks @JoodyBlue. I just hope that this all goes away. I'm so cross about it.

In English the "with woman" refers to woman giving birth (hence a man can be a midwife without needing a different job title). I wonder how long till the job title changes when the woke realise that.

Midwixe? That sounds fair. Midcervixhaver? Midpersonwithauterus? Midpersoninagongypushingalittlefattyoftheirfoofoo?

This article has some interesting things to say about spiritual/hippy/woke communities and how they can be sucked into conspiracy theories. I also thought there are some parallels to be drawn with the gender identity believers:

medium.com/@stephendinan/anatomy-of-delusion-how-otherwise-conscious-people-descended-into-the-darkness-e3acd73cb08f

Sign up to PTAs and governing bodies at your daughter’s school!

We all have to do this - it’s the only way to slow it down.

France sounds a bit like Ireland. We have made great strides recently with Equal Marriage and Abortion rights being won in referendums with handsome majorities. Young people especially are proud of how progressive we have become and see Self Certification as just part of that continuum. And in a small nation like ours it will take time for the scale of the problem to become apparent. Having said that , Ireland has a very litigious culture and I imagine a slew of messy legal actions will focus people's minds?

PS FrenchtoEnglish : well done !!!

Yet again, it’s only women who are being forced to give up our language and definitions. Nobody is demanding we scrap the term “men” to appease transmen. Nobody refers to “prostate owners” or “ejaculators” but we are bullied by TRAs to accept “cervix havers”, “ chest feeders” and “menstruators”.

France has a population of 60 million, it is not a small nation.

That said, I understand that, unlike in Ireland, there is a visible gender critical strand in French Feminism (which wouldn't surprise me as French Feminists have produced some of the best texts written on not essentialising women as feminine.

I was kicked out of a FB group for editors. They were going on about how to use "inclusive" language when editing a text and gave a list of what to replace with what.
I said that this would never work in novels. "Gender inclusive" language would distort the story, confuse the reader and most novelists would not stand for it.
I was reprimanded, got a host of angry faces (and one like-tick!) and then was kicked out.
But it's true. Novelists are not going to change their language to suit this agenda. I know a tra-friendly novelist who actually has a trans child and she still uses "woman" and sex-appropriate pronouns.

@Lamahaha I translate novels for a living. I can't imagine what I'd do if I was asked to make sure I used gender-inclusive language. I'd have trouble. I've noticed that my editing team has started putting their preferred pronouns at the end of their email signatures (they're in America). My DSis thinks I'm being daft for getting angry about all this because I live in the middle of nowhere and it's unlikely to have an effect on me. But it IS already having an effect on me (albeit online/remotely). I work for two major international publishing houses. My job has nothing to do with living in the middle of nowhere. It's "out there" and I might soon be asked to keep up with these changes. And my DD certainly will when her time comes! I really feel like I need to pave the way for her and that this is my fight!

'Prefered pronouns' are compelled speech. They are the antithesis of freedom of speech, of freedom of conscious, of freedom of belief.

Similarly with 'inclusive' language that erases women from a uniquely female experience in order to mollify a potential fraction of a percent of adult female humans who might take offence that their faith position is not reflected in reality. True inclusivity is treating people as unique individuals, being open to the possibility that some individuals may need to be treated differently to others, and accommodating their needs as far as is reasonable. Not predicting what you think they need and then applying it universally, regardless of anybody else's needs.

Op will other members of the group realise you have been kicked out for posting that? I don't know how fb groups work. Though the moderators obviously hope that it will frighten others into toeing the line, it will alert a few others to the fact that something is seriously up.

@Manderleyagain I imagine they won't notice a thing. The group had thousands of members. I don't care. Sometimes, you just need to know you're true to yourself.

French, I can imagine a literary novel with trans-inclusive language will win the Booker prize in a year or two, seeing where they are heading. Novelists need to get cracking -- it's a shoo-in!

Not so for commercial general fiction, is my guess. Readers tend to be pretty conservative and want the traditional terms. Outside of the LGBTQG+++++ genre, few publishers would be looking for unconventional terminology for males and females. Thank goodness.

You can have male midwives.

Yep. Our local hospital had a male midwife when I had my son. He was their breastfeeding expert and an absolute Godsend to me when DS was having problems feeding! He was still referred to as a “midwife” and I don’t recall anyone thinking anything odd of the name back then.