Just been kicked out of a FB group

[FrenchtoEnglish]

I was in a FB group (a French one). It was basically a hippy/vegan/spiritual/woke group for parents (serves me right for soddingwell joining!). There was a post about epidurals. To have one or not to have one. A woman wrote something along the lines of "there's a lot of pressure on women to breastfeed and to have a drug-free labor. The most important thing is that the baby comes out and is loved. Women shouldn't put so much pressure on themselves." She was asked by admin to remove all mentions of the word "woman" and replace it with "person" because it was an inclusive group and that trans and non-binary people also give birth.

I wrote how frightening it was that the word "woman" was disappearing and then mock-chastised then for using the word "midwife" everywhere and not changing it to "midperson" because "cis" men and non-binary people and transmen also did this job and that they should check themselves.

Kicked out.

I'm furious. I honestly don't know what to do. I live in the middle of rural France and this whole debate has never really affected me on a personal level, but I have a little girl who's about to start school. I'm worried that this is the sort of shit that's going to go down in biology classes. I'm scared for the future. I really am. How the fuck are these people getting away with it?

I’m sorry to hear this - I thought this gender bollocks was only in the UK& Ireland and the US & Canada. Do you think it’s happening everywhere?

This is debated. It's usually thought that the "woman" refers to the woman giving birth, but I also read an interpretation more recently that the midwife is literally the "with-woman". Either way, women are are very much central to the word!

@FrenchtoEnglish I am intrigued to hear how gender politics are being expressed in France. I live in France on the border with Switzerland and socialise / work / school mostly in expat circles so have mixed sources to reflect on but I don't see a huge amount from French culture on gender.

Given that some words have been approved to be given a female version only recently, I find the neutralisation of language interesting in the context of a language where all nouns have a gender.

I had a male midwife (he wasn’t great and spoke to my DH rather than me but then I had nothing to compare him to). We asked what he wanted to be called and he said midwife was fine.

I had a male midwife — he wasn’t great and spoke to my DH rather than me

Wow. I suppose I shouldn’t be shocked. But poor you. We women really have to know our place.

Well fuckity bye then!

I feel bad for you for being kicked from a group you clearly have common interests with. Where do you live in France? Is there a hippy creative community around you? If the demand is there, I'd start my own group. Name it exactly like your old group you were kicked out of and then add '- woman friendly' at the end of it. When people search the name of the first group, they'll see your group and it might be enough to pique people's interest. I know of a few locals groups around here that have done exactly that.

It will up to you what you don't or do allow.

Jesus that's so bad. Almost as if you were an pet or farm animal being taken to the vet and he was talking to the owner.

@Pinktornado ^ Either that or he had a crush on your husband!

@Lamahaha - are they saying they would take it upon themselves to change pronouns etc? It would be one thing if you had been briefed to do so (or in discussion with the author, if you're working directly with them), but otherwise I (an editor) would consider that to be overstepping a lot!

@newrubylane
They were discussing non-fiction works and they had two columns of which terms should be replaced with what. I can't remember if they mentioned pronouns, but indeed, they were advocating to completely change whatever the authors had written to make the texts trans-inclusive. The site is on FB and it's called Editor's Association of Earth. I just had a look at their page and they have a lot of discussions on gender. I actually have the option to join again, so at least I wasn't permanently banned! But I guess if I were to ask to join admin would not allow it.

I guess in the future, a few oddly-worded books are going to be the only evidence of a brief spell of purity spiralling. May they be put in a glass case alongside the excavated facemasks and gloves.

It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single cisman in possession of a good fortune, must be in want of a wife/husband/non-binary partner...

BitOfFun

Reader, I married them.

I think, going forward we should all do our best to join, disrupt and get kicked out of as many of these silly woke groups as possible. A new on-line suffrage movement needs to start!

Fabulous idea Alex 😁 It would ruffle a lot of feathers

There is a similar problem on Twitter where there is an ongoing battle to retain the word woman and to prevent us being defined as cis, uterus havers, chest feeders etc.etc. Personally I do not follow anyone who agrees with these changes, yet each day some time is spent contradicting those who wish to alter our nomenclature.

However, little by little, we are being joined by some very influential people and I am just beginning to see a glimmer of hope that we may be making progress. I am sure fb will be the same.

That FB group I mentioned above (Editors' Association of Earth, the one that kicked me out) is actually public and if you search for the term transgender, you can read their very interesting discussions.
Someone for instance is editing a science textbook and doesn't "want to offend" but, "The publisher needs the book to be endorsed by the government of that market, so I have been told to stick to purely biological categorisations", with people twisting themselves into pretzels with their suggestions, some rational, some not, such as: "In sex education circles, penis owners and vagina owners are the current gender inclusive terms used."

Good idea! I'm the disruptive type! I'm ready to cause a bit of outrage.

Vagina owner though. FFS!

Don't you know that we are now individuals with a cervix in the context of smear test? Not women. We have to stop pandering to the left.

You are better off out of it. It may not seem do now, when part of your life is tied up with social media and the 'friendships' you forge there.
but, really! Better to be your own person with integrity than toe the line and fake agreement. That is not the basis of true friendship

may not seem so now

[quote BahHumbygge]Ljósmóðir - mother of light - midwife in Icelandic

Officially the most beautiful word in the Icelandic language (they did a poll a few years ago)

Its origins are unclear, but the word “light” might be connected to the name Lucina, the Roman goddess who assists women in childbirth. Regardless, the concept of a mother of light makes sense when we think of midwives as the individuals who bring light into the world—the brightness of new life and a fresh hope for the future.

grapevine.is/mag/articles/2017/06/02/word-of-the-issue-ljosmodir/[/quote]
This is the most beautiful thing ever.

@BitOfFun

Thank you for standing firm on this. The more of us who do, the better chance we have of stopping out and helping others see how misogynistic and destructive it is.

I have told myself that I can keep quiet until and unless I am forced to use woman-erasing speech at work. That will be the moment I cannot keep quiet publicly anymore.

The only time you see the word woman now is TWAW. Hmmm how come that one is never up for scrutiny?