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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

A handy list of all our privileges

32 replies

Anonymouse99 · 04/08/2020 04:01

www.itspronouncedmetrosexual.com/2011/11/list-of-cisgender-privileges/

I can’t sleep and went down a bit of a rabbit hole online and came across this. It’s made me really cross. I started to pick out ones that I could come back with an example of sexism, objectification or misogyny that women experience that was comparable but then realised it could apply to nearly all of them.

“C*s privilege” is the concept that pisses me off the most. The only people with it are men and it’s just plain old ordinary male privilege - which any transwoman would have benefited from pre-transition whether they wanted to or not and a transman will experience once they have transitioned.

The whole list is just someone trying to show how much worse they have it than anyone else and many of those “privileges” are rights that women fought hard for as we need them.

OP posts:
Siablue · 04/08/2020 05:22

My favourite of these is: “if you are murdered or a crime is committed against you your gender expression will not be used as a justification for your murder nor as an excuse to coddle the purporators”

I think coddling the purportrators Is a very accurate description of what happens to men who abuse women. How else do would you account for the rape conviction rate, the response to domestic abuse rate and the rough sex defence to murdering your partner.

They don’t see it do they. Non- disabled white men have those privileges but that really can’t be said for all humanity.

EugeniaGrace · 04/08/2020 05:48

Yes, it starts out with issues more relating to transition but fully lost me at:

  1. You can reasonably assume that your ability to acquire a job, rent an apartment, or secure a loan will not be denied on the basis of your gender identity/expression.

That is not CIS privilege. That is what women have been up against the whole the whole time. Welcome to womenhood.

Part of my experience of being a women was being told by someone that they didn’t believe a women of child bearing age. (I.e. age 20-45) should work ever. Full stop. I’ve only been told it explicitly once but I bet there are still lots of people who hold that belief.

Women weren’t allowed separate finances To their husbands/fathers for centuries so the banking system has certainly excluded them. But even now it is hard to secure a loan/mortgage or apartment rental a women on maternity leave or part time who can’t show a high enough salary with payslips.

There are people who think women shouldn’t be out after dark and must be confined to the home after 6pm. Forget about being included in public space for women, there just is very little public space for women to begin with.

Urgh.

EugeniaGrace · 04/08/2020 06:04

In fact if I am feeling generous, sometime I think that sometimes the whole TRA movement is men figuring out how much bias still exist against women in society.

Then instead of doing something about the biases against all women, they reflexively create another division by coming out with the term CIS-women and take it out on them.

nepeta · 04/08/2020 07:58

And there it begins, with the cartoon representation of a happy pair of cis people. The man is blue, the woman is pink.

I shall tear my nails out now.

withgraceinmyheart · 04/08/2020 08:25

I agree a lot of those are just male privilege.

I think it highlights the problem of trying to explain someone's else's privilege to them in general. The whole point is that you haven't experienced their class, so it's always based on your external perceptions of what it's like to be them.

It has to be a two way conversation.

LockdownLump · 04/08/2020 08:54

Oh fucking hell. What a load of poor me shite

If you end up in the emergency room, you do not have to worry that your gender will keep you from receiving appropriate treatment or that all of your medical issues will be seen as a result of your gender

So biological female/male related issues should not be treated as such? That does not make sense.

I doubt if you split your leg open and a wound needs dressing, that the nurse would be arsed if you had a penis, but wore a dress.

Clutching at straws with that one.

And no 'role models' - please they're ten a penny now.

It's harder for me to find relatable role models for my 11yo daughter!

TorysSuckRevokeArticle50 · 04/08/2020 09:01

@LockdownLump

Oh fucking hell. What a load of poor me shite

If you end up in the emergency room, you do not have to worry that your gender will keep you from receiving appropriate treatment or that all of your medical issues will be seen as a result of your gender

So biological female/male related issues should not be treated as such? That does not make sense.

I doubt if you split your leg open and a wound needs dressing, that the nurse would be arsed if you had a penis, but wore a dress.

Clutching at straws with that one.

And no 'role models' - please they're ten a penny now.

It's harder for me to find relatable role models for my 11yo daughter!

Ironically though if you show up at A&E with crippling abdominal pains and you're female you may just be told that it's normal for period pains to hurt and to take 2 paracetamol.

I've lost count of the number of women I know who flood through tampons and pads for 10 days a month and/or are in agony every month who are just told it's normal, only to find out sometimes years later that they have endometriosis, fibroids or ovarian cysts.

EugeniaGrace · 04/08/2020 09:37

@TorysSuckRevokeArticle50 Also heart attacks going undiagnosed in females as the symptoms so not present the same way as males.

MondayYogurt · 04/08/2020 10:04

The writer has a feedback form.

www.itspronouncedmetrosexual.com/reply/#source=30%2b%20Examples%20of%20Cisgender%20Privileges

CharlieParley · 04/08/2020 11:16

Written by a man with no understanding of the reality of women's lives. Many of these privileges do not apply to women, but the issues behind them do not blight men's lives in the same way.

Collidascope · 04/08/2020 11:19

"Strangers call you by the name you provide and don’t ask what your “real name” (birth name) is and then assume that they have a right to call you by that name."

Bollocks. Women are frequently called Mrs or Miss when their titles are actually Ms, Dr, or Professor. They're often assumed to have taken their husband's name, and are sometimes even addressed as Mrs John Smith.
Shows just how this guy knows absolutely nothing about being a woman.

Collidascope · 04/08/2020 11:22

"You can flirt, engage in courtship, or form a relationship and not fear that your biological status may be cause for rejection or attack"

Again, bollocks. Men kill their female partners because they are female, because they believe this makes them property, inferior, because we aren't as physically strong.

WellIWasInTheNeighbourhoo · 04/08/2020 11:23

Its just a way for transwomen to retain their male privilege without ever having to do anything to improve the lives of women. How typical.

CharlieParley · 04/08/2020 11:32

4, 12, 28 and 29 are the only points where the rebuttal is not immediately foremost in my mind. Maybe in 2011 when he wrote those a few more points may have been valid but in 2020? The world has changed for the worse for women. Thanks to people like the author.

And I do believe he meant well. But this is what happens when those who haven't experienced oppression (the white, straight, educated, able-bodied and reasonably well off author) decide the disadvantages faced by one group outweigh all others. And proceed to redress the situation no matter what.

CharlieParley · 04/08/2020 11:45

Actually, I'm wrong about 4

Your validity as a man/woman/human is not based on how much surgery you’ve had or how well you “pass” as non-transgender.

If you look at the cosmetic surgery stats, large numbers of women do feel under pressure to have surgery to meet impossible beauty standards. And there are South American countries where cosmetic surgery is the norm for women.

Number 11 properly pisses me off

Your identity was not formally (until 2013) considered a mental pathology (“gender identity disorder” in the DSM IV) by the psychological and medical establishments, and still pathologized by the public.

Only a man can write that it is a cis privilege not to be pathologised as mental health disordered for non mental health reasons.

Does he know nothing about a) women's history and b) about women's health history?

We were officially declared subhuman, to have no soul. Made by the devil. The evil that corrupted the only true humans - men. For thousands of centuries we were chattel. It was only in the 20th century women made headway in being considered persons. And not even everywhere in the world.

If we rebelled against our oppression we were declared disordered, if we were difficult we ended up in insane asylums. We continue to be diagnosed with health issues of the mind when we have underlying health issues of the body.

HerNameWasEliza · 04/08/2020 11:56

My god these are naive?!!!

A few particularly bothered me:

You can reasonably assume that your ability to acquire a job, rent an apartment, or secure a loan will not be denied on the basis of your gender identity/expression. No, as a female you can assume that your ability to get a job WILL be affected by your gender identity and you will be paid less than a man.

You can flirt, engage in courtship, or form a relationship and not fear that your biological status may be cause for rejection or attack, nor will it cause your partner to question their sexual orientation. No, as female you are at high risk of sexual assault and if people can say you ‘flirted’ then the courts will downplay the seriousness and suggest you brought it on yourself.

If you end up in the emergency room, you do not have to worry that your gender will keep you from receiving appropriate treatment or that all of your medical issues will be seen as a result of your gender. No, medicine has been primarily designed for a male adult. As a female you should assume that it is entirely likely that you will not receive as appropriate treatment as an equivalent male.

Your identity was not formally (until 2013) considered a mental pathology (“gender identity disorder” in the DSM IV) by the psychological and medical establishments, and still pathologized by the public. But until recently, if you are female, you were considered to be property and your reports of actual sexual assault were taken as evidence of delusional thinking. Plus if you got depressed at your own subjugation you were given lots of meds in order to help you adjust to the status quo which was favouring males.

You don’t need to worry about being placed in a sex-segregated detention center, holding facility, jail, or prison that is incongruent with your identity. But as a female you do need to worry about being in a confinement with a person who presents as a male and therefore triggers a lot of abuse memories and concerns.

You are not required to undergo an extensive psychological evaluation in order to receive basic medical care. But due to financial disadvantage, as a female, you are less likely to receive basic medical care

If you are murdered (or have any crime committed against you), your gender expression will not be used as a justification for your murder (“gay panic”), nor as a reason to coddle the perpetrators. Instead, if you are female, there are lots of other justifications for your murder including ‘rough sex’.

You can easily find role models and mentors to emulate who share your identity. No, as a female there are very spares numbers of role models due to exclusion of females from public authority and extremely limited celebration of achievements of females.

Hollywood accurately depicts people of your gender in films and television, without tokenizing your identity as the focus of a dramatic storyline or the punchline of a joke. Females in Hollywood must be pretty and slim or they will be punchlines of a joke. At all points you must expect your breasts to be on show and to wear heels which hurt your feet. If you don’t have this sort of body naturally you can develop an eating disorder or have expensive and painful surgery to try and achieve it
You can purchase shoes that fit your gender expression without having to order them in special sizes or asking someone to custom-make them. No, as a female you have a glut of choices of painful and hard to walk in shoes. It is much harder to buy comfortable shoes and very hard for women with larger feet to buy anything as they often have to resort to buying shoes designed for males (who usually have wider feet).
You can go places with friends on a whim knowing there will be bathrooms there you can use. And as a female you can queue for 10 times as long as a male for these bathrooms and feel at risk of assault in many of them.

You don’t have to convince your parents of your true gender and/or have to earn your parents’ and siblings’ love and respect all over again because of your gender identity. And as a female you may never get respect regardless of gender identity.

You don’t have to remind your extended family over and over to use proper gender pronouns (e.g., after transitioning). So as a female you can focus your time on reminding your family not to call grown women ‘girls’, not to re-enact sexist stereotypes and expect you to do all the housework and child-care and be happy to change your name.

You don’t have to deal with old photographs that do not reflect who you truly are. Really!!!! Did you see what I was dressed in as a little girl?????

ChiefClerkDrumknott · 04/08/2020 12:06

@TorysSuckRevokeArticle50

That is exactly my experience of pain being dismissed and undiagnosed

@Collidascope

Exactly. I’ve had many an argument about using Ms instead of Miss or Mrs with friends, family and businesses. I’m due to have a civil partnership with my male partner soon and am not looking forward to yet again having to explain and argue about why I am still Ms Drumknott and not Mrs MaleDrumknott Hmm

CharlieParley · 04/08/2020 12:08

Crikey, can't believe I didn't think of the rebuttal to 12 straightaway

You don’t need to worry about being placed in a sex-segregated detention center, holding facility, jail, or prison that is incongruent with your identity.

International human rights law stipulates that because of the special status of women, that female prisoners must be incarcerated separately from male prisoners for their own protection. That is not a privilege, but a legal right which was internationally agreed between very many countries because we need the protection for our own safety.

Prisons are sex segregated for the protection of women. Not a privilege, a need.

And females who identify as trans and who are sentenced to prison are not incarcerated with male prisoners for their own protection. So the author is again only thinking about the needs of males.

CharlieParley · 04/08/2020 12:14

United Nations Standard Minimum Rules for the Treatment of Prisoners, Principle 8 (a)

So this guy is happily railing against international human rights law. Some progressive mind that.

terryleather · 04/08/2020 12:47

What's that saying again...

"Pouring yourself a long hot bath of someone else's oppression and getting in for a leisurely wank"...

DreadPirateLuna · 04/08/2020 12:56

You don’t need to worry about being placed in a sex-segregated detention center, holding facility, jail, or prison that is incongruent with your identity.

I'm sure lots of people in prison feel it is "incongruent with their identity". Who wants to identify as a convict?

Gender-unconforming men may be at higher risk of attack in prison and need extra protection, but that has bugger-all to do with "identity" and is not women's responsibility to deal with.

JustTurtlesAllTheWayDown · 04/08/2020 13:04

Oh yes. I remember seeing this a little while back and it gets right to the heart of the problem: the complete lack of empathy and understanding of the reality of what it is to be born female.
Almost all of those applied to the women they are calling 'privileged'. Hugely ignorant and sexist article.

DreadPirateLuna · 04/08/2020 13:08

You don’t have to convince your parents of your true gender and/or have to earn your parents’ and siblings’ love and respect all over again because of your gender identity.

If you need to earn love and respect from your parents and siblings, your family is pretty dysfunctional to start with. Good parents (and to a lesser extent siblings) give love freely. They might withhold respect if you're being a dickhead, but it's usually not based on your "identify".

Or possibly what they mean by "love and respect" is "accept I am right in every way". Which I suppose makes sense to a narcissist.

Thelnebriati · 04/08/2020 13:33

Its been archived;
<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20111122183716/www.itspronouncedmetrosexual.com/2011/11/list-of-cisgender-privileges/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20111122183716/www.itspronouncedmetrosexual.com/2011/11/list-of-cisgender-privileges/

archive.is/cUMMB

Vermeil · 04/08/2020 14:09

‘You can purchase shoes that fit your gender expression without having to order them in special sizes or asking someone to custom-make them.’

🤣🤣🤣
Hear that, Sam? It’s the sound of every tall woman with big feet bitterly laughing her arse off at your complete ignorance.

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