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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Rape is virtually decriminalised

51 replies

QuentinWinters · 30/07/2020 09:35

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53588705
Prosecution rates and convictions have fallen to record lows. Referrals to CPS down 40% since 2014, due to the volume of digital evidence police need to go through (and let's be clear, that's the victims phone and personal messages as well as the offenders, and probably in more depth for the victim).
Police now also needing corroborating evidence if there is a dispute about consent to refer, and not referring cases where victim was drunk/on drugs.

Sad
OP posts:
DianasLasso · 30/07/2020 09:48

Sadly, horrifyingly, this is absolutely true.

Gwynfluff · 30/07/2020 10:00

The Victims’ Commissioner, Vera Baird (look her up - our RBG) has basically told the CPS to sort it out and told the police to stop taking and keeping victim’s phones. She deserves our thanks.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 30/07/2020 10:02

She does.

Angryresister · 30/07/2020 10:07

Yes, it’s a green light to rapists

BovaryX · 30/07/2020 10:25

This is a massive failure by the CPS. This status quo is unacceptable. When are the government going to act? The Conservatives won, inter alia, because voters thought they would be robust on crime. What are they waiting for?

If the CPS is unwilling or unable to deal with this failure effectively to prosecute rape, then the government must act. The current situation cannot be allowed to continue.”Dame Vera added that it was a “shocking and unacceptable” fact that 3% of rape complaints resulted in a charge in 2019, adding: “What is even more shocking is that this figure is likely to fall even further in 2020.“In effect, what we are witnessing is the decriminalisation of rape. In doing so, we are failing to give justice to thousands of complainants.“In some cases, we are enabling persistent predatory sex offenders to go on to reoffend in the knowledge that they are highly unlikely to be held to account

nepeta · 30/07/2020 10:32

From a wider viewpoint this is happening because the society allows it to happen. Also, the squeaking wheel gets the oil, and the current feminism is very much focused elsewhere.

BovaryX · 30/07/2020 10:39

the society allows it to happen

That is true. For decades the UK has had a cross party 'liberal' consensus on crime. There is a paradigm in which the criminal is a 'victim' while the actual victims of crime are betrayed again and again. The upcoming release of a sadistic killer who used a 'consent' defense which his victim couldn't challenge because his horrific injuries had killed her is a recent example. Baroness Newlove notwithstanding, this bankrupt status quo continues. The government should hang its head in shame. A decade of 'Conservative' govt and the BS continues.

QuentinWinters · 30/07/2020 10:45

When are the government going to act? The Conservatives won, inter alia, because voters thought they would be robust on crime. What are they waiting for?
I think unfortunately rape is not perceived like other crimes and for a lot of voters, the "crime" of women falsely accusing men is a much more serious issue than rapists being put in prison.
I really doubt being tough on rapists is anywhere in the Conservative thought process regarding crime. Especially given some MPs views on anonymity for men accused of sex crimes.
I think Keir Starmer would make this a priority, after his actions when he was Director Public Prosecutions.

OP posts:
BovaryX · 30/07/2020 11:14

I really doubt being tough on rapists is anywhere in the Conservative thought process regarding crime.

I think that's a baseless assertion, particularly because the 80 seat majority the current government got in December was delivered by 100 year Labour constituencies abandoning their team. The sloppy, liberal paradigm on crime has dominated both parties for decades. As for Keir Starmer, he was DPP when the decision was made to only prosecute Worbuoys for a tiny fraction of his prolific career as a rapist while driving a black cab in the capital. The Conservatives should be the party which has an unambiguously clear law and order policy. They should leave the criminal as 'victim' paradigm to their political opponents. They need to make clear that decriminalisation of rape is not something they will tolerate. They need to be clearly distinguished from Labour. I don't believe for a single second that most of the public are happy with the current approach to crime. It is not working.

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 30/07/2020 11:39

No 'virtually' about it, OP. Rape is de facto legal.

The two men who put me through this at fifteen years of age have got away with it, so I speak from bitter experience.

The 'rough sex' defence is a particularly concerning development. We are going rapidly backwards.

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 30/07/2020 11:43

the "crime" of women falsely accusing men is a much more serious issue than rapists being put in prison.

And this makes my blood boil too. Wouldn't it be interesting to see the ratio of how many men are behind bars having been falsely accused (achievable) offset against the numbers who have never been reported (obvs data which can never be available, but I expect it's a lot)?

No prizes for guessing which one of these two groups would vastly outweigh the other.

Imnobody4 · 30/07/2020 12:30

twitter.com/EVAWuk/status/1288796238909972480?s=19
Hearing is just starting at Court of Appeal 're CPS change of guidance. EVAWuk failed at a lower court. Timing couldn't be better.

stillathing · 30/07/2020 12:40

Surely being on drink /drugs means one can't consent?

Imnobody4 · 30/07/2020 13:13

@Imnobody4

twitter.com/EVAWuk/status/1288796238909972480?s=19 Hearing is just starting at Court of Appeal 're CPS change of guidance. EVAWuk failed at a lower court. Timing couldn't be better.
I'm really hoping the DPP has met his nemesis. www.endviolenceagainstwomen.org.uk/rape-prosecutions-womens-groups-appalled-at-further-fall-in-numbers-and-head-to-court-again-against-cps/ The appeal today is based on four arguments That the earlier court erred in deciding the Director of Public Prosecution’s version of events had to be relied upon; in deciding that the removal of legally binding guidance doesn’t constitute a change in policy; and in deciding that there was no duty to consult; nor breach of duty of transparency.

The public interest in the case, taking place the day CPS publish their most recent rape prosecution statistics, is very significant and the hearing at its heart is about whether there can be any accountability of the DPP if the Courts are required to take his version of events as fact, even when there is compelling evidence of human rights failing to the contrary.

And – domestic abuse figures falling too:
Of great concern also – today’s CPS figures include Domestic Abuse figures which now also appear to be following the same trajectory as rape – with drops of around 20% across police referrals, charges and convictions. Once again this suggests the disregard the CPS appears to have for women’s access to justice.

wellbehavedwomen · 30/07/2020 13:37

The Centre For Women's Justice put the evidence online. It's horrendous - read only if feeling robust.

They're the ones bringing the appeal together with a women's group coalition. They're an amazing charity, and a really small monthly donation - even a fiver a month - adds up over a year, if anyone has it to spare. At least there are a group of women lawyers out there, fighting for us.

lydiamajora · 30/07/2020 13:41

This is honestly the reason that, if I or anyone I know were to be raped, I would not bring it to the police. You'll get a hell of a lot more justice with a bat and a few friends than you will ever get from the "justice system". The system gives zero fucks about rape victims.

Dervel · 30/07/2020 13:44

I wouldn’t wish to score political points on this one. The cultural climate around rape has been allowed to flourish under governments of various stripes. I have voted conservative, but I wouldn’t be too quick to blame Kier Starmer for the Warboys thing as often the decision not to proceed to prosecute someone like Warboys for each and every offence is to try to spare victims from having to relive the horror in court when they have enough to put him away indefinitely which I believe he is.

This should be an issue EVERY party takes seriously.

WinterAndRoughWeather · 30/07/2020 13:50

The fact that rape is effectively legal is the clearest example of how the patriarchy works and how endemic misogyny is a problem at all levels of society and in all political parties.

Who benefits from rape being so easy to get away with? Men.

Who overwhelmingly makes the laws, enforces the laws, prosecutes and defends in courts? Men.

There is a structural vested interest in minimising rape and making it virtually impossible to prosecute. How many judges, lawyers and policemen (not to mention jurors) will have committed rape themselves?

It’s a very common crime treated like it’s very rare, because it suits the perpetrators to pretend it hardly ever happens. And men like them certainly couldn’t do it.

BovaryX · 30/07/2020 13:52

Imnobody
Thank you for the links. Apparently, the CPS are only proceeding with prosecution when there is a 100 percent chance of conviction. How anyone could argue that these dire statistics of 3 percent of cases resulting in a prosecution as evidence of success is just gobsmacking.

BovaryX · 30/07/2020 13:56

Dervel
I am not scoring political points, I am saying that it is an indictment of the current government that after a decade of 'Conservative' in Downing street, this is the situation. The liberal consensus on crime which has dominated the UK for decades is a failure. The Conservatives should be unambiguously hardline on crime. They are not. They should hang their heads in shame at these statistics. As for the CPS? I have no words for their profound dysfunction.

Dervel · 30/07/2020 14:10

@BovaryX apologies I didn’t mean to imply that you were. Merely that there is a culture of using sexual misconduct smears unevenly. Obviously Trump’s attitudes towards women really should bar him from any sort of political office at all, but it was disheartening in the extreme when very vocal proponents of the #MeToo movement tied themselves up in knots arguing that Joe Biden deserved due process when allegations of sexual assault emerged against him.

However I am 100% fully happy to see anyone on my current political side brought to book for any assault on women I was only reading this today for example: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-53515005

Wherever we may disagree elsewhere politically I am completely in agreement with you that this all needs to change. I generally believe women, I don’t think false allegations are anywhere near as widespread as the media portrays them as, and I really believe this sort of behaviour creates an environment that discourages women from taking a full and equal place in our society.

TenthOfDecember · 30/07/2020 14:11

Dame Vera Baird used to be the Solicitor General. It's good she seems to be trying to do something but it's a pity she didn't do more to act then, and I don't especially feel like giving her my thanks, yet.

The CPS are a bag of bollocks and a disgrace.

I agree the current gvt are rubbish about this but so were labour when they were in.

stumbledin · 30/07/2020 14:15

This goes back to a decision by the CPS to only take on cases that they were quite confident of winning for purely statistical reasons. ie because it is so hard to get a conviction (often down to the Jury not wanting to "blight" a man's life!!!) the data showed that they were too often unsucessful in getting convictions.

And, not saying this is an exceptable reason, the guidance that the police must see all text / SM communication between suspect and victim after that case where a man had a case against him withdrawn because text messages on the woman's phone showed she had not been honest. (There was an inteview with a woman on W@BovaryX

If we didn't have this stupid fixation on stats over reality, you would think that the CPS would go ahead with more cases and they could look at other issues like juries (wasn't there meant to be training for jurist who were going to be on a rape trial?), and too often the police not linking the rape suspect with existing convictions. eg in the case of the woman interviewed the man concerned had ony recently been released from prison for violence.

I thought this was one of the purposes of SARCs ie a place where evidence could be collected so that even if not every case went ahead if it became apparent that the same man was committing a number of assaults this could be used to bring one case.

Surely if in a period of time five or six women go to a SARC and the evidence collected shows it is the same perpetrator someone should take action.

I am sure underfunding plays a part, but all too often it just seems because it is complicated no one can be bothered because in the end it is primarily women who are the victims.

Although the worse are those where the police decide to "no crime" some one they know is the rapist.

Its strange with every thing else that happens on social media that women haven't set up some virtual space where you can warn others are some violent sexual predator.

BBC interview mentioned here www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53588705

BovaryX · 30/07/2020 14:16

No problem Dervel the failure of multiple governments, particularly the Conservatives on this make me very angry. The decriminalisation of rape is a scandal, the CPS are failing crime victims and the sense of impunity among recidivist violent criminals is an inevitable upshot of this dysfunction. It's frickin outrageous

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