Rape is virtually decriminalised

[QuentinWinters]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53588705
Prosecution rates and convictions have fallen to record lows. Referrals to CPS down 40% since 2014, due to the volume of digital evidence police need to go through (and let's be clear, that's the victims phone and personal messages as well as the offenders, and probably in more depth for the victim).
Police now also needing corroborating evidence if there is a dispute about consent to refer, and not referring cases where victim was drunk/on drugs.

Doesn't look like DV cases are doing much better. Link to stats on DV and Rape from CPS.

Does anyone know what RYTD means?

.
Historically Labour has been really bad on rape as a crime and focused more on DV. They allowed many rape crisis centres to close as they didn't think they were a funding priority. And it was mainly Tory funding that kept the few that survived going. It is slightly different now as some Police and Crime Commissioners funnel money through. But it was the closure of so many independent and single purpose rape crisis centres closing that allowed Women's Aid projects to then be in a position to bid for money that then became available for rape crisis support. Many feel this has been a bad move as it is as much to do with a larger group that isn't focused or has the history of supporting rape victims to get money that a smaller volunteer but dedicated rape crisis group would not get for financial management issues. (This is also why so many local women's aid projects lost out to Housing Associations as funders just thought the money is safer with an organisation with a large turnover and didn't look as the quality of the service.0

RYTD "Rolling year to date" means 12 consecutive months (example: Sept. 18, 2007 to Sept. 17, 2008).

Thanks imnobody4!

Yes!!, They've won right to a judicial review.

Finally, some good news!

@wellbehavedwomen

The Centre For Women's Justice put the evidence online. It's horrendous - read only if feeling robust.

They're the ones bringing the appeal together with a women's group coalition. They're an amazing charity, and a really small monthly donation - even a fiver a month - adds up over a year, if anyone has it to spare. At least there are a group of women lawyers out there, fighting for us.

Thanks for the link, I'm donating now.

Vera Baird did champion this cause as Solicitor General - here are her comments in commissioning the Stern Review to look at rape convictions, whilst she was in that position:

^ Solicitor General Vera Baird QC MP, said:
“Rape is a devastating crime that traumatises victims and shatters lives. There has been progress in tackling rape; but the fact is conviction rates are far too low. We need a step change in the way rape complaints are handled, and the Stern Review should help us identify how we can improve the handling of rape complaints and drive up convictions rates.”^

Here is an article from the guardian after the Review was done, quoting her. She seemed positive at the time that they could improve things, which was a bit optimistic, but common when you do those sorts of reviews:

[https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2010/mar/15/stern-review-rape-less-focus-convictions]

Sorry italics and link fail

Yes. The words are good, of course they are. They all know the right words to say. They all 'champion the cause'. The whole thing is depressing and makes me too angry to talk about.

I’m depressed by it to, but don’t think Vera is the one to blame. She’s consistently spoken up about this issue and in positions of influence.

And, as we constantly note on here, the discourse and the words do matter and someone speaking up from a place of power is bloody important.

I’ve suggested this before, but one of the stumbling blocks in the cultural conversation surrounding sexual violence is a very flawed notion that just because a man is found not guilty of a rape he must be innocent and this then gets compounded by the belief that the accuser was at best mistaken or at worse maliciously lying. This I believe feeds into a disproportionate sense of how often women lie.

What I believe might help shift the Overton window in society’s perception is a charity set up specifically to pursue rapists in civil courts where criminal courts have failed. I fully appreciate this in and of itself is not good enough, but my belief is that given the burden of proof in a civil case is “on the balance of probability” and not “beyond reasonable doubt” it will explicitly expose as the cases mount up the severity of the problem and shift the cultural conversation.

The family court doesn't give a shit either. Not only is it absolutely de factor legal, it's also considered completely "ok" to do anything to your wife and mother of your kids, as long as she isn't killed. And even then.

We are required to fill out a c100 form and then are humiliated with it and effectively deemed trouble makers.

I don't even think we're in the 50s at this point, we're somewhere back in the late 1800s.

So this was reported on the news, directly after it was reported that Charlie Elphicke, ex MP, had been found guilty of two sexual assaults and had been warned that was 'possible' he would face jail time.

When, within seconds, the newsreader talked about the low number of rape prosecutions and convictions, there was an air of 'How can this be happening?' and I thought, "Did you see what you reported, seconds ago? A man is actually convicted of two sexual assaults and it's still not certain he will face jail."

The answer is crystal bloody clear. Men know they can get away with it. Change the justice system to crack down with an iron fist on them, and pour endless shame on rapists and sexual abusers so that men are scared shitless about being seen as a rapist. Put the onus on them.

Its not just the justice system. Even if that was improved more often than not juries, including juries with women in the majority, will rarely convict a man of rape when it is his word against hers.

Too many mothers who think not my son, too many wives who think not my husband, too many sisters who think not my brother.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/21/juries-rape-trials-myths-justice

What I believe might help shift the Overton window in society’s perception is a charity set up specifically to pursue rapists in civil courts where criminal courts have failed. I fully appreciate this in and of itself is not good enough, but my belief is that given the burden of proof in a civil case is “on the balance of probability” and not “beyond reasonable doubt” it will explicitly expose as the cases mount up the severity of the problem and shift the cultural conversation.

This is a good idea - is anyone trying do to this Dervel?

It's the individual police as well. I was raped when I was pregnant. It was a former friend, he admitted it in a message and begged me to forgive him and not tell anyone because it could get him kicked out of uni etc. I went to the police. I was in the room with a male officer and a female officer. The male officer told me they would need my phone and access to me emails and social media accounts and he said "I should tell you, if the evidence doeant stack up in your favour and it looks like a false report then we'll need to have a discussion over your ability to be a parent so you might not want to go down this route. Right now, no police time has been used but when we start looking into it, you'll just be building up wasted police time which is another point against you."

He had already made up his mind after hearing the man was someone known to me and was very clear that he would come after me if there was the slightest doubt of guilt.

The female officer said nothing. I left.

I simply dont see any way forward for rape cases. First you face the police, with cops like that taking your report. Then you face the investigation into your sexual history and all your social media etc. Then the CPS. Then defence lawyers. Then the jury. And every stage is a battle because the default is not to believe you. I really dont know how that changes.

Fucking hell, Bobbie, that's horrific! Actually intimating that your children could be taken away? This is insane. I'm so sorry.

@IloveJKRowling not to my knowledge, and I’ve no idea how to go about setting one up, plus I’m a man which I think disqualifies me from leading something like this as I think it would be fundamentally more successful if it was a female led organisation. However I’d be happy to donate or for anyone to pick my brain on it, if they thought it would help. I’d even make the tea!

Think various charities already help with this
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-43044323
That article mentions rape crisis scotland.

The guy in there also was found guilty in civil court, but then declared himself bankrupt.
www.google.com/amp/s/www.scotsman.com/news/crime/man-successfully-sued-st-andrews-rape-declared-bankrupt-1418591%3famp

Unfortunately using the civil courts then builds a narrative of "gold digging" women
Patriarchy in action - women are in a total lose/lose situation

www.google.com/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/news/2733818/mum-who-won-rape-case-against-david-goodwillie-and-david-robertson-slams-vile-online-abuse/amp/

I am in total awe of Denise Clair, such a brave woman.

Bobbie

stumbledin, no, it's not just the justice system, it's the culture of impunity for men who rape. Some people still say if a man is accused of rape, his life is ruined and it's not fucking true, not even slightly. We need to shift that culture, and I don't know how, but it's a big part of why they get away with it. Men should quake in their goddamn boots at the thought of being a rapist, or being seen as a rapist. I keep thinking of those surveys that ask men, if you could rape a woman and be sure of getting away with it, would you, and the percentage is ridiculously high. That's the default position. FWIW, my contribution is to let every male in my family and social circle know that if he rapes or sexually assaults a woman, he is dead to me.

@QuentinWinters it shouldn’t be too difficult to dismantle the women are gold diggers narrative, from that first article you linked (thank you btw, I wasn’t aware of the case):

"It is highly unlikely I will see any of the money," she said, as the legal aid board will take back its costs.

"For me it has never been about the money. It is the only route I have left."

Although personally from my point of view if people have been hurt compensation from any perpetrator is entirely reasonable.

Onto the bankruptcy point of course you are right, but I would move to campaign to make debts acquired through sex crime civil actions persist through claiming bankruptcy, like some other debts (like tax and missed child support payments).

Can't find the figures but juries are more likely to acquit young men. Don't want to ruin their life over one 'mistake'. Of course that just proves to young men everywhere that their are no consequences and they can continue their behaviour.

I was just aghast that the man still wont admit any liability for what he did. On the plus side, if any potential girlfriends google him, they can at least see what kind of man he is

Thank you for the suggestion too. It jogged my mind to do some research and find charities to donate to, to support women who might pursue civil action

I still want a crime of "reckless penetration" to be in place

FloralBunting - I think we are agreeing?