2nd DD saying she is trans - I have also posted in LGBT children

[SupportPlease]

I know this thread may be removed but I need some advice or an idea of where to get support, I have NC.

My DD1 (18) self identified as male about 2 years ago and last year changed her name by deedpoll. I probably haven't supported her/him as I should as I believe these gender identity issues are austism/anxiety related - there have been numerous attempts to get support through CAMHs and a diagnosis but after about 4 years we are still nowhere near and haven't seen anyone from adult MHS despite being referred to them when DD turned 18 in February.

We moved house in January and she now shares a room with 13 year DD2, first time they have ever had to share. Now, 6 months later DD2 has told me she is also trans - she says she hasn't always felt like this and might not always feel like it but wants to change her name. I do think there has been indoctrination by older DD who has social issues and spends about 18 hours a day talking to god knows who online.
I just don't know what to do, I feel like I'm walking on eggshells constantly with DD1 but DD2 has always been a very kind, easy going person and she has changed a bit since lockdown began. I can't separate them as this would not only be obvious but there is no other space for one of them to have, hence why they share. Any advice or signposting to support sites would be really helpful right now.

Tbh I don’t think a 13 year old sharing with an adult sibling is ideal and especially given they are nominally different- erm- genders. Currently.
If your housing situation cannot change could you get a sofa bed to allow each person to have their own room and you sleep downstairs?
I would be discussing the differences between sex and gender with dd13 and suggesting she can be called whatever she likes but that further discussion around her sex or gender can be put on hold for now.

This must be so difficult, especially when she will have the influence of older sibling and friends.

Do any of her school friends or real life peers identify as trans? Is the younger also autistic?

I've got no advice I'm afraid, my DD identified as non-binary for a while till she left the college class where there was a group of 6 of them who all identified like that but obviously you can't remove your younger child from the older one.

I posted on your other thread to ditto the suggestion of contacting Bayswater Support Group (www.bayswatersupport.org.uk/ or @BayswaterSG on Twitter) or Our Duty (@OurDutyGrp on Twitter or www.facebook.com/ourdutygrp )

I had siblings in my family diagnosed with GD. It's socially contagious, plus risk factors are often shared by sibs.

I just don't discuss it anymore. Adults can do as they please. Minors in my care get psychological support, support to be gender non-conforming if they wish, a non-homophobic family environment and a hard line re no social, hormonal or surgical transition until independent adulthood.

Best of luck. It's difficult.

I would move your younger daughter in with you. She shouldn't share with her sibling.

i honestly cant believe how little respect you appear to have for your older child. He is self identifying as male, and has been for some time. to dismiss it as 'autism' is offensive and hurtful. And, given the self identification (but even two females of those ages would be dubious), your two children should NOT be sharing a bedroom. if you have a small house, give them each their own room - they need privacy and have different things going on at that age - and set up your bedroom in the living room. definitely not appropriate.

... to dismiss it as 'autism' is offensive and hurtful...

To you?

strawberrrymilkshakemonkey what reasons do you see that means two children of different genders cannot share a room but two children of different sexes can? Apart from their ages, what about ‘identifying as a male’ makes it inappropriate? Clothes? Short hair?

Nothing helpful to add but flowers] OP. Wishing you well.

here have some actual flowers

Going along with all this trans stuff ,is like saying anorexia is a life style choice,
Totally agree with u op ,it is mainly due to autism ,anxiety ,mental health.
In years to come there will be hundreds of claims against the nhs ,saying their bodies have been botched and the doctors should of realised they were mentally unwell.
What to do about your daughter
I think the children need separating ,you need a 3 bed house ASAP
If you can’t ,then I think you need to give your bedroom to one of them ,so they can be kept apart .
Then I would be finding outs of info about mental health for your youngest and trying to get to the bottom of what’s causing this

Nice supportive post there strawberry
I agree with contentious. Counselling for the youngest. It probably is a good idea to separate them - maybe you and eldest DD should share for a while.
Have you talked to youngest about how she perceives eldest and what is going on? It sounds very hard

My friends daughter went though this
There had been bullying,and she couldn’t find her place in the world.she went from being unpopular ,to popular when she came out as trans
So although she didn’t feel she was trans ....she said this after ...
She did enjoy the attention it gave her..the school nurse got her appointments at a gender clinic without the parents consent as she was 15 .the parents went mad ,but the school pushed for the appointments.
It was a scary time ..good luck op

@BaronessBollyKnickers

... to dismiss it as 'autism' is offensive and hurtful...

To you?

i was meaning it is probably offensive to the OP's elder child, who deserves to have their identity respected, but ok.

I would get in touch with Transgender Trend [email protected] for help to find support with this situation. Their website is here: www.transgendertrend.com/
Just to say, if you are housing, feeding, clothing & caring for your 18yo,you are definitely supporting them. I wish you well.

@Aesopfable

strawberrrymilkshakemonkey what reasons do you see that means two children of different genders cannot share a room but two children of different sexes can? Apart from their ages, what about ‘identifying as a male’ makes it inappropriate? Clothes? Short hair?

Yes I’m interested in this

Children of two different sexes shouldn’t share a room past 10

Ive just checked on the NSPCC website Legislation states if children over the age of 10 of the opposite sex are sharing a bedroom they should have their own rooms

Seems clear to me

And there must be loads of families were the house doesnt ‘fit’ the amount of children

We tried it at at one point...With about the same age gap

@Aesopfable

strawberrrymilkshakemonkey what reasons do you see that means two children of different genders cannot share a room but two children of different sexes can? Apart from their ages, what about ‘identifying as a male’ makes it inappropriate? Clothes? Short hair?

i'm not sure what you mean? i didnt say that two children of different sexes can share a room.

So let me get this straight. Being trans isnt a social contagion but the odds of two in the same family being trans are very low indeed.

Teenagers who are the opposite sex shouldn't share a bedroom, but if you 'change sex' this is somehow still ok to your adult child because it allows them to not have to take responsibility for themselves and go and pay their own way. Can you imagine this in another household where a 13 year old girl has to share with an 18 year old?

You moved to a smaller house on the basis that they could share and the elder one 'would grow out of it' but this hasnt happened and now they are an adult they need to face that.

You should at show some consistency. If you are supporting your elder child's identity they need to move out because there is no room for them in the house, now they are an adult.

Otherwise its your houserules and the internet is binned and they are not to talk to their sister about this nonsense. Put your foot down.

You have to ask yourself can you save both kids from this nonsense or will you lose them both to it? Is it better to cut the social contagion out and ask the elder one to start pulling their own weight and taking responsibility for themselves?

It sounds a lot like you are facilitating the problem at home by allowing them to have their cake and eat it by indulging the fact shes female when it suits her because she can then sit on her arse at home on the internet filling her sisters head with nonsense rather than be a grown up.

Honestly, you are being walked all over here by 'being kind' and im not sure its good for either child.

The older one has to make a choice. Is she male? And if so she moves out. Or is she taking the piss and playing fantasy land because shes still not emotionally mature enough to look after herself? She cant have it both ways.

No easy way out of this. I'd be trying to give the younger one a chance and spelling out to the older one the consequences of being an adult and making adult decisions.

You are respecting the elder ones adult identity and choices in doing so.

Obviously I don't know your circumstances, but this room share is not working and is putting your younger DD in harm's way if she wasn't unsure about her 'gender identity' before.
RedToothBrush words are strong but has a point. Stop this room share and put some boundaries down. If your older child is not at school, then they need to look for a job. That alone would reduce the hours noodling about on the internet.

Sometimes wording bluntly illustrates the point more clearly. In this case its the elder daughter using 'the power of trans' to take the piss and avoid adult responsibility when it suits.

I think the best way to solve this is actually to take a step back and leave them to it. It's obviously not ideal them sharing a room at that age but I certainly wouldn't kick the eldest out, that's just going to come across like you've kicked them out because of their gender identity and will cause further estrangement and potentially exacerbate their social anxiety.

I know it's upsetting and worrying but I honestly think the best way is to just accept reality at the moment. Chances are your youngest is simply looking up to their older sibling (which is quite nice really) and exploring their gender identity a bit as, let's face it, gender exploration is the "cool" thing to do at the moment. Also if it is a case of DD2 looking up to DD1 then eventually DD2 is bound to start doing the opposite of DD1 because after the pre-teen stage, teenagers usually end up wanting to differ from their siblings and have their own identities. Coming out as trans at this young age doesn't necessarily imply that they will want to change their sex entirely, it could just be a way to explore the person who they're going to become through adolescence, which is what every teenager does.

I think if you put up a big defense against it now it's just going to cause more tension between you and your children and potentially cause them (and you!) more emotional distress. If you just accept that teenagers are always going to try and carve their own identity for themselves and this will always be somewhat based on what their peers are doing at the time then I think your DD2 will find whatever suits them, and as other people have said in this thread, it is unlikely that what suits them will be exactly the same as what suits DD1!

Thank you for the replies. On the sharing front, we rent and our other home (of 14 years) was being sold for a redevelopment so we had no choice but to leave. We managed to find a 3 bed house close to school for our youngest, DS2 who is 9 - DS1 lives away from home. I'm not trying to dismiss DD1 because of the autism but she had body issues from around puberty that I believe were related to the changes she doesn't like - she would never discuss periods or development changes because it was a change and she doesn't like that. She was supposed to be going to university in September but doesn't want to go because of covid-19. I will coontact MHS again to see if they can offer her support in trying to find a job, she does have diagnosed social anxiety and the lockdown has enabled her to avoid everything she finds difficult.

I will look into how we can change our living circumstances and have been reducing DD2s internet access, she has been spending more time out of the room and doing crafting things or walking and I will continue with this and read the links.

Thank you, it's been helpful already.

And, given the self identification (but even two females of those ages would be dubious), your two children should NOT be sharing a bedroom.

Strawberry, female is a word for biological sex, not a gender identity. Unless you have the legal fiction of a GRC. They are both female. And you appear to think their "self identification" is the main reason they should not be sharing a room. I agree they shouldn't share a room at this age ideally, but they are the same sex.