Liz Truss live thread 22nd July

[BaronessSnippyPantsofCroneArmy]

For those who can't watch, I thought it would be useful to post any important news here.
11.30 start...

That murder story is horrific! Can't believe I hadn't heard about it.

One reason for the murderer's identify being somewhat shielded is that she is a victim of DV too. It could explain why there's no images or social media presence, not that the media are well known for caring about vulnerable women but that's one theory.

@happydappy2

Kantastic do you have any links to this story please?

Just be aware that previous threads about this murder have been removed by MNHQ.

OK-thanks for the heads up- its slightly off topic-don't mean to de-rail. I'll delete my post.

Kantastic that case is horrible and it is interesting that there are no pictures released of the offender.

Was the offender originally named as he as there was a second person arrested who is a man.

I can see 1-4 being relevant Corgi
Also agree with Itsall about there being a massive power struggle behind the scenes.
Stating the obvious but it never ceases to really fuck me off that government support for fundamental women’s rights issues is so contingent on what men think.

Was the offender originally named as he as there was a second person arrested who is a man.

Yes, this specific offender was initially referred to as "he" in a news report. It was discussed on the thread about this case. But I didn't realise that thread had been deleted - probably best not to say anything more about this!

I have no idea if this awful murder case is relevant or not to the government announcement on GRA reform. I think it’s more likely that there has simply been a great deal of lobbying pressure on the government and MPs and they are still casting about behind the scenes, looking for concessions they can offer to those groups, to mitigate or in some way ‘balance out’ what they will say in the announcement. Which is naive because anything less than total capitulation will still cause an absolute outcry. Better for government to be clarifying and gaining consensus on why they have made the decision they will outline. And it’s worrying because assuming the government will be saying no to Self-ID, what concessions can women and children afford to have given away on their behalf?
Also, I hope any government announcement has listened to detransitioned women’s experiences and eg would offer an immediate new legal provision for being able to revoke your own GRC- which is currently not provided for.

If there is any link to this case reportedly it will be back in court on August 4. www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/aunt-phoenix-netts-whose-remains-18279690

The actual trial is reported to have been provisionally scheduled for November according to other reports.

for the young woman who was killed, Phoenix Netts and to her family.

On the other thread I said I thought it was much more likely that Cummings has set up some sort of algorithm which balances of the good and bad response they will get from the public.

So for instance the news that Rugby officials have basically confirmed (what we all know) that biological sex is a scientific reality will have pushed the results a bit more towards gender critical.

But I also think as others have said, that they dont really care (at the top level). The have got Brexit and the virus and the economy to worry about.

I suspect they are almost hoping for some other "big news event" over the summer and will just let the announcement slip out.

What we need before then is for instance some other actual substantial event, eg like GIDs being found at fault.

But going on Liz Truss' earlier statement I think all that will happen is they will confirm that single sex services are (still) guaranteed, no medical intervention for under 18s, no self identity (for legal purposes) and some easing of the changing birth certificates.

Dont forget this was all launched as a LGBTI++++++ consultation. It is only because women started organising that they have been made to look at the (un)intended consequense for women.

---

BLM is NOT a hard left movement. White male left politics have tried to co-opt it. And some who claim they are BLM have made statements.

And unfortunately the lazy media just goes for the usual suspect loud mouths.

The BLM movement is far closer to what was the WLM ie a series of local groups or actions reflecting the priorities for that grouping.

I am afraid that the combined negative actions of white left entryism and lazy white media will basically erase a movement that was not allowed to be autonomous. ie its been colonised.

The only thing TRAs can say is 'look at Ireland, look at Malta, there are no problems there'......well Canada has self ID and is in a right mess (Yaniv) Ireland excludes TW from the female estate.

There are possibly changes that can be made to the GRA to help trans people-I've just read about a TW in Australia who has had surgery but the GRC panel in England does not recognise Australian Drs, so getting her certificate is on hold...but lets face it getting official documents can seem intrusive-medical opinion is sometimes sought & that's not unusual.

For a child to get an Educational Health Care Plan (EHCP) there are lots of therapists that need to see the child and the process takes over a year. It's incredibly slow and intrusive.

I'm sure little things can be done to help with the process.....though why we are still issuing GRCs is beyond me

I wonder how much being lobbied by google has an effect on government? They shouldn't matter but big businesses always seem to have a lot of power.

Maybe they could just make the admin fees for the GRC cheaper? Concession, won't cost much.

Public sentiment is still strongly for doctors being involved.

Hopefully Liz Truss and team have seen these docs published yesterday.

twitter.com/lecanardnoir/status/1285918147476967426?s=21

Rather pertinent.

Maybe the good Baroness could send them to her?

Ireland excludes TW from the female estate

I thought they didn't? This is from last year, did something happen after this case?

www.lawsociety.ie/gazette/top-stories/male-bodied-transgender-inmate-housed-with-women-prisoners/

"Criminal defence lawyer Robert Purcell says that the Gender Recognition Act 2015 has placed the State in an impossible position with regard to transgender prisoners.

The law is challenging for the courts and the Irish Prison Service, he believes, since there is, potentially, a safety issue for women inmates housed alongside a male-bodied prisoner.

Currently, a pre-operative, pre-hormone therapy, male-to-female transgender prisoner is being held in Limerick women’s prison.

This is understood to be the first time that an inmate, registered as male at birth, has been housed in a women’s prison in Ireland.

When before the court last July, the prisoner was in possession of a gender recognition certificate.

It is understood that the prisoner was assigned a high level of monitoring after being convicted of ten counts of sexual assault and one count of cruelty against a child.

The prisoner is accompanied by two officers at all times while in the common areas of the detention facility.

“The Irish Prison Service must accept all prisoners into custody, into whatever prison that a judge orders,” Minister Charlie Flanagan said in response to a parliamentary question from Aontú TD Peadar Tóibín, on 12 September.

Robert Purcell is chair of the Law Society Criminal Law Committee: “The law that was enacted in 2015 did not envisage this situation, and it puts the Prison Service and the courts in a difficult position because, obviously, if somebody is self-declaring that they have to be recognised, then they have to be dealt with on that basis, even though physically, they have not have made the [physical] transformation.

“I don’t think the legislation envisaged the ability of transgender people to be able to self-declare; and it didn’t foresee the problems it would cause if a transgender, self-declared person was held in a mixed prison,” he said.

The court has to recognise the lawfulness of that law, and act on it, and that’s what the judge was doing, Purcell said."

The law 'did not envisage this situation'

Speculative comments / straws in the wind I've picked up:

Downing St would like it all to go away.
Liz Truss might be moved in a reshuffle.
Politics will intervene, i.e. if Labour takes one stance, the government will see advantage in going the opposite way.

hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2020-07-22/debates/14B188A8-367F-4FFD-A120-D1447E8895EC/TransgenderPeopleDiscrimination

Hansard notes from today if you want to read what was said- but this gist as pp am have said, is an update over the summer.

I was also suspicious about the Forest of Dean case, I suppose we’ll have to see what eventually comes out.

While Dominic Cummings remains in place I can’t see any changes being pushed through.

@Abitofalark

Speculative comments / straws in the wind I've picked up:

Downing St would like it all to go away.
Liz Truss might be moved in a reshuffle.
Politics will intervene, i.e. if Labour takes one stance, the government will see advantage in going the opposite way.

If she is, would be nice if Jackie DP got the job...

BLM is NOT a hard left movement

Please. Some of its architects have described themselves as trained Marxists. Trained Marxists are presumably more hard core than untrained Marxists. Neither are Conservative. Dismantle capitalism. Defund the police. Do you imagine these are the slogans of Conservatives? Can you define 'hard left?'

I just posted this on the other Liz Truss thread. I don't know how relevant this is to what was said in Parliament today.

Link to the HoC briefing paper about Gender recognition and the rights of transgender people published last week. This was reissued today after being partially rewritten due to the inclusion of schools guidance which had been withdrawn.

researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-8969/CBP-8969.pdf

Thread from last week:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3969486-House-of-Commons-Library-Gender-recognition-and-the-rights-of-transgender-people-16-07-2020

The new version still includes links to the Cornwall schools transgender guidance which I understood was one of the documents which had been withdrawn.

That thread is a brilliant quick summary of those papers by lecanardnoir. Thanks for the link.

I am so glad to see that in his paper Marcus Evans is saying that statutory regulation is needed in this field. I have been saying that for a while, I think it would help doctors. There is massive pressure by a vociferous political lobby on individual doctors trying to make their clinical decisions in the best interest of the patient. This is not like working in normal medical practice.

There are no "architects" of BLM. It grew out of a spontaneous grass roots response.

Dont be suckered in by mainstream representation and the very infiltration I posted about.

From the moment disparate groups started getting traction the entryist (mainly the same old white male leftists) started "organising" and created a pretend hierarchy.

And unfortunately they have been sucessful, mainly because the mainstream media is too lazy to investigate and people like you just fall for this narrative.

The 3 young women from Peckham who put a call out that led to the largest march in London weren't hard left. They were, as I said like the WLM, responding from personal experience.

Unfortunately because almost as soon as they got the attention of the wider (white) public there was a pile on on their facebook page and they closed it. This local grassroots response took place in other cities but were similarly appropriated by existing left groups.

This by the way is exactly what happened to Women's March.

Initially it was women locally all over the US reacting to the election of Trump. But in no time at all an unelected group started a web site and claimed they were THE Women's March. And again lazy mainstream media just accepted that at face value.

You must be aware of this tried and tested method of disenfranchising the originators of grass roots movements.

This is why so many people think that so called far left groups are in fact an arm of the CIA and MI5/6 because they so effectively undermine the intentions of the original people.

It might be worth doing a bit of research of the some of the original BLM demonstrations and see how different it is from the quotes you have made.