Rugby reject koolaid, listen to science

[niceberg]

Thank goodness.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jul/19/transwomen-face-potential-womens-rugby-ban-over-safety-concerns?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other

The mind matters more than the body.

In sport, it obviously doesn't. This is why you don't see many 5 ft basketball players.

The same variables which affect safety (size, strength and so on) also affect fairness.
It'll be interesting to see whether it's only safety concerns which are needed in these decisions (rugby; fingers crossed for boxing, etc.) or whether this will be the gateway for consideration of fairness (pretty much every other sport).

*heeded, not needed.

I think many men, understanding the difference between male and female bodies, will be reluctant to play if they know a transman is on the pitch.

It always struck me as odd that women didn't just refuse to compete against transmen. I honestly think, if this isn't sorted out, they ought to do some mass protesting. The crowds would back them up

It’s all well and good them talking about those who have “been through male puberty” but the existing England Rugby Guidelines state that girls and boys must not play together from age 11, so they acknowledge that there is already a difference even though puberty has barely started in some children at this point.

I know @ErrolTheDragon @Ereshkigalangcleg @ThePurported - that is such a concerning attitude.

One thing that struck me when I was reading The Times article below (sorry can't do share tokens) was that the transwoman player Kelly Morgan (who folded an opponent like a deckchair) said "I do feel guilt but what can you do?"
This is in direct contrast with the attitude of many of the male rugby players who are concerned about the idea of allowing transmen to play in case they injure them. They worry because they would feel terrible if they were responsible for causing a serious injury - these men understand the impact of their sheer size and power.
I wonder if Kelly Morgan's attitude is typical of the transwomen playing womens sport (hard to see how it wouldn't be else they wouldn't be putting women at risk) and does it indicate narcissistic tendencies esp when contrasted with the men?
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/injury-fears-over-rugbys-trans-women-drive-referees-off-pitch-877hjsfz0

I absolutely refuse to accept the concept of 'female' minds. It's sexist and regressive. For goodness sake, Christine de Pizan wrote against the concept of a female mind in the 15th century!

I hope this opens the doors for every other contact sport, including non direct contact such as cricket (the additional strength of hitting the bowl and throwing can be dangerous with mixed sex cricket for example). And then move on to the individual sports.

I would support a campaign for a trans category for sports where it was viable (such as marathons or road cycling. So they can still compete, it's just the results recorded seperately).

Just in case anyone thought trans activists might realise that demanding the right of transwomen to injure women might not be a hill worth dying on:

twitter.com/joshgardner/status/1285135039605481473

The idea of male/female brains has been utterly refuted.

Dr Gina Rippon has written extensively on the subject, including her book “The Gendered Brain”.

www.theguardian.com/books/2019/mar/05/the-gendered-brain-gina-rippon-review

@Ereshkigalangcleg

So this person reckons it's a good idea to encourage kids to be permanently sterilised, on the off chance they might want - and have the ability - to be some sort of athlete?

I'm shocked, shocked I tell you that TRAs on Twitter are using this argument to push for puberty blockers for children.

Speakers at a WPATH conference a year or two ago were talking about giving cross sex hormones to children, and that they want to see the ban on sterilisation of children removed which would allow them to do this. Susie Green tweeted in support of this.

So if you are born male but have a female brain, what does that actually mean? Is it because you like wearing dresses? Is it makeup? Do you want to have boobs? Does me liking math mean I have a male brain? Or am I OK because I like sewing? What non stereotypical behaviour is it that gives you a 'female brain'? What about my preference for flat shoes? Because to me what has set me apart from the boys/men is my body, not my brain. And that physical body is different from a young age. I see those differences between my sons and my nieces very vividly.

Sorry, it was surgery to sterilise children that Susie Green and WPATH were promoting.

mobile.twitter.com/green_susie100/status/1059817455395237888

Marci Bowers saying surgery should be allowed based on competency NOT age of majority. Psychological assessment should not be needed for surgery as this is not required for cisgender surgeries of ANY type. Removal of the sterilisation clause is key

Speakers at a WPATH conference a year or two ago were talking about giving cross sex hormones to children, and that they want to see the ban on sterilisation of children removed which would allow them to do this. Susie Green tweeted in support of this.

Yes I know. I just meant it was utterly predictable how they would use a finding that going through male puberty means that MTF trans people won't be able to compete in some sports to push the idea that "trans" children should not go through puberty.

So pleased about this - some good news at last, and some common sense.

[quote HPFA]Just in case anyone thought trans activists might realise that demanding the right of transwomen to injure women might not be a hill worth dying on:

twitter.com/joshgardner/status/1285135039605481473[/quote]
And there we go, in one of the tweets on that thread.

"Why would you want to restrict trans women's rights?"

What rights would those be? To paralyse a woman? To ''fold a woman like a deckchair?'' To ''fracture a woman's skull'', like Fallon Fox bragged about 🙄 What about the rights of female players?

I'm sick of the story that the trans community are having their human rights denied. They have the same human rights as the rest of us.

I think these people have been on Twatter too long and have mistaken it for real life. You can shout that science and biology doesn't matter/exist all you like on there, but back in the real world, it very much does. The flat out denial is unhealthy, it's not normal.

It always struck me as odd that women didn't just refuse to compete against transmen.

Because it is not a situation free from compulsion.

As with women's refuges whose funding became conditional on turning women's facilities mixed sex regardless of the impact on their female service users, female athletes would lose funding and be penalised by their teams if they dared to be open about how they felt on this matter. There is compulsion. There is not freedom of conscience. There are deliberate acts to silence, repress and chill females to discourage them in standing up for themselves and their rights against males who wish to exercise unboundaried freedom of choice.

Heads, males win. Tails, females lose.

Except now even 'female' is apparently a choice and not a word permitted to ….. well, the half of the human race who has been erased, that we have no words for.

Off to let my MP know that since I no longer exist, I shan't be paying taxes.

[quote HPFA]Just in case anyone thought trans activists might realise that demanding the right of transwomen to injure women might not be a hill worth dying on:

twitter.com/joshgardner/status/1285135039605481473[/quote]

That guy is clearly a man who simply hates women. He probably hated the idea of women's rugby right from the get-go, and has now spotted a way to destroy the sport from within using tranwomen as a trojan horse.

One thing that struck me when I was reading The Times article below (sorry can't do share tokens) was that the transwoman player Kelly Morgan (who folded an opponent like a deckchair) said "I do feel guilt but what can you do?"
This is in direct contrast with the attitude of many of the male rugby players who are concerned about the idea of allowing transmen to play in case they injure them. They worry because they would feel terrible if they were responsible for causing a serious injury - these men understand the impact of their sheer size and power.

Yes, I was thinking earlier that if I had to choose between playing against a male who knows he is male, and a male who thinks he's a woman, I would definitely choose the male who knows he's male.

I've never met a man who wasn't aware of being stronger than most women. So many trans women, however, seem to believe that because taking female hormones has made them "so much weaker and slower than they were" that that basically means it's completely fair for them to play against women.

At least your average male who knows he's male is going to self-moderate when playing against a woman.

I would have been willing to play against a trans man. Even if they had been on testosterone, having not been through a male puberty would mean that the distribution of any increased muscle wouldn't be typically male, and that their skeletal frame wouldn't be so different.

I wouldn't be at all happy playing against a transwoman, for all those reasons stated in the article.

But however it would take a very single-minded bunch of players to actually not play a match when everyone has trained, turned up and is waiting in front of a crowd - putting the onus back on women to defend our own rights again is the problem. The system needs to uphold our rights.

HPFA

I just saw one of the usual haters of MN comment to someone pointing out the effort World Rugby went to get the science right. Even to the point of modelling force of male bodies vs female bodies in contact. The hater, of course, totally discounted Dr Hilton's contribution because 'phobic' and pointed out the the original poster who was calling the decision transphobic was a PhD with so much more experience.... and that was who Dr Hilton was arguing against. My thought was immediately... umm really? A Phd in another field knows so much more than an expert Dr in developmental biology who has made this one of her fields of expertise.

The hatred runs so deep that they cannot see past the red alert of 'exclusion! exclusion! exclusion!' to reality that is that male puberty gives unfair and dangerous advantage.

Oh, and Josh focuses on scrums and head protection. Were those scrum protectors tested on, you know, women? If so, did it mitigate against the specific injury patterns (well documented elsewhere too) that the Welsh uni discovered due to women's more delicate nerve fibres? What about simply that advantageous differences simply make it unfair and that a male body running full pelt and 'folding them like deckchairs' cannot be protected against with mere head protection?

Nah.... it is all about centering transwomen. And Josh's self believe that he is so superior to anyone who points out where he might be wrong is laughably stereotyped.

[quote HPFA]Just in case anyone thought trans activists might realise that demanding the right of transwomen to injure women might not be a hill worth dying on:

twitter.com/joshgardner/status/1285135039605481473[/quote]
"Some of the worst people on the planet."

Aka women who won't just shut the fuck up and let the men or the bepenised women decide what's best.

Nah.... it is all about centering transwomen.

This pov seriously is that females (whatever they now are) are just mere collateral damage to the necessary achievements and freedoms of TW. Regrettable, but it's not like they have proper feelings or are equally human or exist independently outside of being props in male lives or anything.

This is the attitude slave traders and owners hid behind to justify the appallingly unequal treatment meted out to other humans. Their own superiority, and their needs met via the regrettable but necessary harm to lesser beings.

Fuck. That.

isnt josh just one of those rugby amateur pundits who is basically against everything the rugby "establishment" do?

Im sure if the RFU had come out and said TW should play, he'd have instantly decided they shouldnt

he's an attention seeking dick but it doesnt matter that he doesnt like it because there's nothing he can do about it.....