US college first year describes her experience of mixed dorms

[Clymene]

Formerly single sex, they were made unisex to appease the trans lobby.

I'll bet you can't guess what happened ...

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1284387238122598403.html

@Rosieposy4

There is a huge amount of difference between the photo posted by Rufus and most UK university shared bathrooms. Despite what several posters on here claim I have had four kids attend four different universities and their first year uni accommodation was all shared mixed sex living spaces and mixed sex showers and loos. However all the showers and loos had lockable doors. Ensuite is certainly not the norm in most university owned and run accommodation but is in the private halls, which are much more expensive and have a reputation generally for being less sociable.

Absolutely

I just think that some of us are at cross purposes

I understand completely that there are mixed sex halls in the uk, and mixed sex student houses, but I’m not sure thats what is being referred to in the OP

Shes talking about shower cubicles/toilet cubicles - like in the gym. An enclosed room with flimsy partition between showers.

In the UK rooms are either en suite or have an enclosed bathroom leading out onto the corridor, like an actual room rather than a row of partitions. Or single sex cubicles. Most UK accomodation you are able to rrqhest single sex, otherwise the accomodation is not going to be accessible to some groups of women e.g. muslim women

Yes, the US system will be flimsy cubicles with doors with gaps on top and bottom. Even I, a small woman, could force my way through one of those doors if I wanted to, so a man would have no problem doing so, or indeed peeking over the top if he was so inclined.

Re. pearl clutching.

19 year old me (lib fem through and through, doing a blokey subject, proud of being "one of the lads" in the outdoorsy activity I did in my spare time) probably wouldn't have batted an eyelid at the row of cubicles with gaps top and bottom.

My friend who had the misfortune to be raped in our first year - she would probably have been completely freaked out by that arrangement and would have had to make do with stand-up sponge baths with a basin in her room.

Older me - who knows the prevalence of male sexual violence, and voyeurism - not a chance I'd think gaps top and bottom of cubicles in a unisex shower room were acceptable.

That's not because I've turned into a pearl clutcher, that's because age and experience have sadly taught me what fucking perves a small but non-negligible minority of the male sex are (round about 1 in 20 if David Lisak's research is correct).

RE "pearl clutching" part 2, if those accusing other women of that want to share facilities with men then they're welcome to do so. Most of us don't want to, and don't owe anyone else a justification for that preference. Majority preference wins, frankly. If a minority want to feel terrible smug and superior about their position then they're welcome to do so, but they shouldn't be allowed to impose their preference on the majority.

Pandora: Lots of student accommodation in the Uk is en-suite.

Yeah, and it is almost like there are other countries that are NOT in the UK. Almost.

Ds1 would have been have been mortified sharing the showers with women in the picture ive posted

I’ll tell him he is clutching his pearls

(Thats not going to end badly 😀)

There's a difference between multi-entry facilities and single-entry ones.

The former is a facility that can be used by several people at the same time and is typically single-sex. If it isn't then this becomes a multi-sex facility, where bpth sexes may use the facility at the same time.

The latter is a facility that can be used by only one person at any one time and is called unisex because while members of both sexes can use it, only one sex at a time uses it.

In my university and school days, I was in both shared single-sex and mixed-sex flats with unisex facilities and single-sex dorms with single-sex facilities as well as at the end mixed-sex dorms. By far the worst for privacy and safety were mixed-sex shower rooms with flimsy curtains and shared toilets in the latter.

As for today, two of my kids had the former setup at two different university towns (UK). The norm there for university accommodation are 3 to 6 bedroom flats with the residents of each individual flat sharing one or two single-entry unisex bathrooms. With lockable doors.

Even though these bathrooms are safe and private, every student also had a choice between single-sex and mixed-sex shared flats.

What that student describes is not the single-entry unisex bathroom that is the standard* option for UK university accommodation but a multi-entry mixed-sex facility. And it doesn't sound like any of these kids had a choice.

*En-suite bathrooms are the premium option - if they are available at all.

I agree, Rufus - most men don't really want mixed sex facilities either. They may be less likely to complain than women due to fearing for their safety less, but given the choice most would prefer not to have to share.

Sorry that shiuld read

As for today, two of my kids had the unisex setup at two different university towns (UK)

Should

FFS

My nephew is a similar age to your DH and I think the poor lad would resort to showering in the middle of the night with a prior scouting trip to ensure nobody else was around if forced to share those kinds of showers with women.

DS, not DH! I am not implying that Rufus has gotten herself a toy boy.

& then in later years, I was in MO terraced houses, usually with about 5 students - extra rooms carved out of the attic space, former living room & in one horrid example, the basement.

One shared bathroom & possibly an additional outside loo.

But that was groups of friends - different from a free-for-all of random 18-19yos & their guests sharing flimsy communal bathrooms!

@TheProdigalKittensReturn

DS, not DH! I am not implying that Rufus has gotten herself a toy boy.

😀

Be too Much hard work have a toyboy i reckon

Ive only just trained dh

Look I know it's hard to accept - but yes, most uni accommodation does have mixed sex bathrooms. Yes you can request en suite, catered, single sex, but you are not guaranteed. En-suite are in the highest demand, but most uni residences were built decades ago and unis have very little money to refurb. So kids DO usually end up sharing a bathroom with students of the opposite sex - both mine did. Happily I'm glad to say.

titchy can you clarify your last sentence. If a DD of yours hadn't been happy to do this (for reason outlined in the article), would you not have been glad? I'm curious to what degree you feel the boundaries, dignity and safety of our girls are important.

Prodigal yes, I once read a poster here state that if self ID was to happen and any man could use single sex spaces, she would start using the men's as the predators would all be in the ladies

There is logic in that approach

Indeed. The men who would keep using men's facilities even if they had a way to access women's facilities are not the ones who're likely to pose a threat to women, as by staying in their own facilities they have already demonstrated at least some degree of respect for women's boundaries.

Do you mean about respecting each other's need for space? I mean just that - the boys didn't shave if one of the girls was in the shower for example. They also agreed to only use the loo to pee when someone was showering

I feel the privacy boundaries and dignity of females is paramount. Absolutely. If my dd hadn't have been happy with that set up (the example was my ds, but my dd was happy with mixed facilities, although they opened Onto the corridor), I'd have helped her argue to move. I'm not sure why you think otherwise?

I just felt the article doesn't translate very well to a UK audience, and as such lends weight to the TRA's image of women who object to sharing facilities as being rather hysterical (apols for word) given that it's the norm here in student accommodation.

So kids DO usually end up sharing a bathroom with students of the opposite sex - both mine did.

Shared by using it at the same time? Or had use of the same bathroom, shared between all flatmates, but used one after another?

There is a massive difference between the two scenarios, and it would be helpful to clarify which of the two you are describing tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz

At DD's uni most of them had en suite bathrooms, though some had shared.

When I went to uni in the dark ages, we had some single-sex and some mixed-sex halls. Nobody had en suite. However, the mixed-sex halls all had single-sex corridors - so you'd only be sharing a bathroom with people of the same sex. Having said that, lots of girls had boyfriends to stay overnight so in practice sometimes you'd see a bloke in the bathroom. I don't remember any problems, though.

@CharlieParley

So kids DO usually end up sharing a bathroom with students of the opposite sex - both mine did.

Shared by using it at the same time? Or had use of the same bathroom, shared between all flatmates, but used one after another?

There is a massive difference between the two scenarios, and it would be helpful to clarify which of the two you are describing tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz

So you are actually saying tellme that you child would be in one of the shower cubicles in this picture and a man would be in the other and that this is normal in the uk

Cos ive not seen it in the 15 ish unis we’ve looked at in the uk...and i know there are a lot more unis than that in the uk

Its not hard to accept that students are in mixed sex accommodation...loads of us have said that

Oopsie

No picture

Fucks sake