#ManUpForTheCensus

[AnyOldPrion]

It appears that Scotland are likely to run with a census that centres gender ideology instead of sex, but does so in a way that remains under the radar.

The attached image contains the NRS response, on behalf of the Scottish government, to Murray, Blackburn, Mackenzie.

Twitter thread here:

twitter.com/mbmpolicy/status/1284118531911581697?s=21

This approach is devious. The main question will appear wholly straightforward and will ask for what most will assume to be sex in a simple, binary question.

Only those who consult the guidance notes will realise that the question does not refer to sex, but instead to “gender identity”.

This would appear to be yet another means of introducing gender ideology into the mainstream by stealth. In a few years (indeed it has already happened) it will be stated that the question has been asked that way for years without problem. Reversing it will be near to impossible. The reality is, of course, that any problems with this approach would take years to surface. They are almost impossible to identify, especially when the meaning of words such as “woman” have been changed to include men.

I think it may be prudent to campaign against this, and demonstrate the obvious problems with this approach by direct action. Inspired by ManFriday, and discussion in the linked twitter thread, I suggest that a movement should be created where women in Scotland should consider identifying as men on the day the census is taken.

#ManUpForTheCensus

Civil disobedience has a long history within Women’s Liberation. If anyone has any ideas or comments, please do join in with the discussion.

Is there a helpline you can call to get help with answering the questions?

Its very important to me to answer the census honestly, and I am confused by the guidance.

"How do I answer this question? If you are transgender the answer you give can be different from what is on your birth certificate. You do not need a Gender Recognition Certificate (GRC). If you are nonbinary or you are not sure how to answer, you could use the sex registered on your official documents, such as your passport."

How do I know if I am transgender or non-binary? It says that if I am unsure I could give the sex on my birth certificate, but presumably equally I could not?

@PlanDeRaccordement

Just let it slide. The higher the # of people checking woman or female, the more money women’s services and charities get. Talking things like breast cancer research vs prostate cancer research. Domestic violence shelters. Etc

MtF trans far outnumber FtM trans, so this allowable bit of fudge will only result in less money for men’s services and more for women’s.

So just let it go. Checking off man or male would take away from women. Refusing to answer would take away from women.

Unfortunately, that's not how it works. Data on sex is further disaggregated by age and other characteristics to identify need and estimate what resources have to be committed to certain issues.

Some of the resulting groups can be small and therefore badly distorted by incorrect data collection.

That's why data users have been vocally opposed to the sex question being adulterated by ideology.

This sort of thing really pisses me off.

The data is used for long term planning. Estimating how much provision of maternity care, school places, care for elderly etc.

It's not trivial at all.

And the info is needed.

Obvious answer is to have

Sex m/f (at birth)
Are you trans/ what is gender

Then you get the info for planning and you know the trans population for their services.

This is not acceptable. And govt stats people go along with it?

And the way it's so often hidden. So most will tick their sex. They bank on this. Hope stats will pretty much actually show sex.

They never explain

Why bio sex is now irrelevant
How they know how skewed the data is
If they realise v skewed what they will do about it

If sex is irrelevant then just fucking take it off.

Ask gender id only.

Be transparent.

Cowardly sexist gits.

Times article today:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/e57aeb1a-0aa6-11ec-922b-9339a9da8961?shareToken=834b0528a3b93f4732b2d64fc77ff999

Thanks for share token

Research suggests three times as many trans and non-binary people would be willing to answer the sex question with self-identification guidance. Vic Valentine, the manager of Scottish Trans Alliance, said that the format would provide the best data.

Scenario 1: Question is unequivocally about sex and a small group of people refuse to answer on ideological grounds, thus skewing the data slightly.

Or

Scenario 2: Question is asked and the same group are allowed to give a false answer, thus skewing the figures further.

So this isn’t remotely about getting accurate information. It’s all about forcing this ideology on everyone, presumably thus giving grist to their “well it’s been done for years so you’re removing our rights if you change it now” mill.

I honestly think it’s a bizarre decision, given last years court case. Those running this are so captured and so arrogant about it that it’s hard to contemplate how it’s going to end… other than that it will probably end messily and badly,

Totally agree.

It’s wrong to do it this way

And what research. Where is that research ?

@AnyOldPrion

Go further and trans every man in the house ? Even more money for us.

This is a better plan.

Wonder whether anyone’ll bother taking them to court. I feel like Scotland is a lost cause, government-wise, but it’s been really cheering to see so many women around the world standing up for Marion Millar.

Imagine the healthcare provision! We'll be rolling in maternity units, smear tests, and maybe even better care for alzheimers!

Guardian article:

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/31/people-can-self-identify-as-male-or-female-in-scottish-census-says-guidance

@Letsnotdothisplease

The guidance for the sex question says you should answer based on your gender ID, and this is the same across the whole UK.

Not completing the census is illegal. And you won’t be able to skip the sex question online.

So! The only solution is for lots of us to request paper copies and select F but write on the margin that it must be recorded as our biological sex.

People did this last time to protest Lockheed Martin getting the contract.

This will piss off the ONS etc because they want 80% of people to complete online (cheaper).

THIS is what we need to build a campaign to do!!!

This. This is what I'll be doing.

I'm day dreaming about a census result that shows 75% of the adult population of Scotland is "female" after all the men who are sick of this nonsense decided to embrace their feminine gender identity on that particular day.

If three quarters of the Scottish population turned out to be female what are the chances that a proportionate amount of resources would be redirected into supporting female health and community needs?

Zilch of course, because nobody is going to allow this ludicrous heap of post modernist bullshit to impact on male rights and needs.

I'd still love to see it happen though.

@Stealhsquirrelnutkin

I'm day dreaming about a census result that shows 75% of the adult population of Scotland is "female" after all the men who are sick of this nonsense decided to embrace their feminine gender identity on that particular day.

If three quarters of the Scottish population turned out to be female what are the chances that a proportionate amount of resources would be redirected into supporting female health and community needs?

Zilch of course, because nobody is going to allow this ludicrous heap of post modernist bullshit to impact on male rights and needs.

I'd still love to see it happen though.

Oh absolutely, in fact the whole census will probably be done again at great expense with more words to explain how you are in fact a sex not a gender unless you say you are.
Or something. Still money will be wasted, and if the question isnt removed then they will get the same answers I assume.
So will there be a lovely advertising schedule ? Asking all the Scots if they want to be a woman for half a day?

If everyone can self-identify, what is the point of collecting the data at all? It can't be useful for anything except saying how many/what proportion of people identify as male or female or other, and what use is that? Might as well leave the question off the list altogether. 🤷🏼‍♀️

I just realised something reading the linked news pieces.

Probably everyone knew this already but while the penny had dropped before this was a sudden piano dropped on my head like an old cartoon.

If the groups etc for trans people really wanted to understand things about the trans population then it would be what everyone would be fine with.

Something like.

Sex (birth) M/F.
guidance I would be fine with saying if GRC then record what that says, as numbers are so small. And given numbers small I think given the GRC well no need to push on that.

Gender identity.
Are you transgender
What is your gender
Multiple choice/ don't have to say/ free text etc

That would give full info for planning services that apply due to sex most importantly around school places etc

AND would allow a really good understanding of the makeup of the trans population and allow trans orgs to develop strategy services etc based on that. Much better for trans people.

But no.

I did get that the sex question is BAD because sex is irrelevant internal ID is what matters.

The piano bit was that it's not about wanting some of those with trans IDs not to feel uncomfy/ upset etc.

But about an absolute determination, a strategy. To ensure that sex is never linked to biology. To remove that last thing. Sex. Male female. In as official a way as possible. And nothing actually at all to do with making trans individual feel more comfy.

It hit me hard because. In England this had to go to court. And the ruling was sex is sex. Gender asked elsewhere.

In Scotland despite loads of statisticians orgs that use the data etc saying wtf. And despite this ruling which though different court is hardly totally different in terms of stats census etc.

They've still done this.

The fact that planning mat services where are how much, school places where and how much, stuff like capacity to deliver services that children need- related to sight speech and so on.

That is less important than the redefinition of the only words left it seems to group the most fundamental thing of all mammals (and most animals plants everything). Reproductive class.

I know I know. It's obvious.

But every time something happens to underline that there's a strategic aim with this it catches me off balance afresh.

In the Times Scotland today, Watchdog queries trans self-identify census plan:
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/7412ea18-173a-11ec-8aba-5ab737a99668?shareToken=427cd8d53b77e27a798bd098755edeca

To the pp who referred twice to sex assigned at birth, I’m going to point out that no coin is flipped when a baby is born. Sex is merely observed and recorded. Not assigned. I’ll say it again. Not assigned.