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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

This Spectator article?

52 replies

aliasundercover · 17/07/2020 13:02

I assume the original - now removed - thread was about this story by James Kirkup. Did the original thread quote too much or something?

Anyway, this is well worth the read:

www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-bbc-failed-the-facts-over-a-crime-concerning-gender-identity

OP posts:
Aesopfable · 17/07/2020 13:16

I don’t believe for an instant that the BBC did not know what they were doing.

These crimes are not our crimes. It is not being nice to women to report them as such. Men such as this are being put on hospital wards with women, some may be only 18. It is horrific.

WinterIsGone · 17/07/2020 13:17

Very interesting.

I didn't notice the bbc article discussed in the article being mentioned on here. Here's the link to that:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-53410019

Kit19 · 17/07/2020 13:20

James Kirkup has been on this for so long & never once taken a step back

He’s bang on again

WinterIsGone · 17/07/2020 13:22

And at the opposite extreme, how The Mail reported it, putting the word "trans woman" in the headline.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8521787/Paedophile-54-used-public-Wi-Fi-download-child-porn-hospital.html

The local papers seem to take a middle way, including "also know as" in the body of the article. I would have thought that would have been the way for the bbc to go, to be accurate.

Binterested · 17/07/2020 13:29

Unusually I don’t think that is a good piece by James Kirkup. Overcomplicates matters.

This is a man. Legally and biologically. The BBC misrepresent the situation. They have misled their audience and that is in contravention of their editorial guidelines. And what’s worse, they knowingly misled their audience. They lied.

When the state broadcaster knowingly lies we are all in big trouble.

ThePurported · 17/07/2020 13:46

Binterested I agree, it's not a great piece. I guess they all have to write around the IPSO guidelines?

"Was born male, has a male name, is regarded as a male"

He is a male. A man.

RoyalCorgi · 17/07/2020 13:47

Yes, James is being overly cautious and overly generous. This is a man committing a typically male crime. Not difficult.

aliasundercover · 17/07/2020 13:50

The BBC article doesn’t mention trans or men, but it does have woman in the title above a photo of what is very obviously a man in a flowery blouse.
Maybe they thought no further comment was necessary?

OP posts:
truthisarevolutionaryact · 17/07/2020 13:55

I want to know whether this man was on a women's hospital ward? That's the other story here. If he was, what safeguarding measures did the NHS take to ensure that women were safe from this predator? I know the answer will be none

sultanasofa · 17/07/2020 14:05

I've sent a comment to the BBC saying that their story was misleading because of omitting to mention that this is a transwoman.

wellbehavedwomen · 17/07/2020 14:14

Not our crimes, yet without the photo, who would know? The BBC appear to have forgotten that they have a public service responsibility to tell the truth.

Nor would you learn that when Marshall first appeared in a magistrates’ court over these crimes earlier this year, court records – based on information from Lancashire Constabulary – contained the following reference: ‘Gender: male’.

I contacted Lancashire Constabulary about Marshall’s case on Wednesday. The force confirmed that they have recorded Marshall as a male: even though Marshall ‘self-identifies’ as a woman, the offences concerned will be recorded in crime statistics as having been committed by a male offender.

Ben Beaumont-Thomas identifies as a feminist. James Kirkup is one. He's brilliant, and solid as a rock.

SirSamuelVimesBlackboardMonito · 17/07/2020 14:15

Even the Mail article talks about 'cisgender' prisoners and prison staff. Angry

I'd bet fifty quid that he was on a female ward, truth.

@MNHQ can you clarify - I believe I am allowed to use "he" as the individual is a convicted sex offender?

Binterested · 17/07/2020 14:15

The two people I’ve discussed this with were both unsure that this was a man. Because the BBC told them it wasn’t. People trust the bbc. Wrongly as it turns out.

wellbehavedwomen · 17/07/2020 14:29

I don't agree that he's not done a good job, personally. He's tackling a really serious problem in a calm and considered way. He gives the facts, explains why facts matter, and suggests that journalists need to be braver. That's his colleagues he's talking about. It's never easy to challenge poor practice in your own industry, especially when that poor practice is not intentional malfeasance, and he's also right: a lot of reporting is surrounded by fear, so people duck out of engaging with it altogether, and take the path of least resistance. He's pushing back, which is creating resistance from the other direction, and is also very much harder for him than letting the reporting around gender identity, and the harm that can do women, slide. That matters, and I'm glad he's doing it.

MsMarvellous · 17/07/2020 14:53

I've complained to the BBC about their article and questioned their stance on this and asked what their investigative journalism team are doing to look at the impact recording these crimes as female may have.

Datun · 17/07/2020 15:32

Yes, this is indeed not very complicated.

If you read the BBC story alone, you would learn that a 54-year-old woman had admitted three counts of making indecent images of children

It's not true. It matters because women don't tend to commit these crimes. This man (as he was) transitioned afterwards. Which is something that every paedophile on the planet can now do.

And as a result there uncertainty as to whether this criminal will be put in a women's prison!

It's clearly wrong on every level.

Furthermore, if you read the article with the knowledge that a significant number of men transition for sexual reasons, it becomes out of the ballpark ridiculous.

JellyFishSquish · 17/07/2020 19:53

One of the comments ...certain people want to sow as much discontent, confusion and worry around as they possibly can. They want an end to common sense, to a general consensus that says, as it always used to, that these men are not women, they are pretending because they have a sexual fetish, gynephillia, they are turned on by feminine things, clothes, makeup, shoes, underwear - in other words wearing women’s knickers and high heels arouses them.

There is probably a tiny percentage that actually feel they are women, and want to pass as women in ordinary women’s clothes that won’t get them noticed, they are discreet, a woman might not notice them disappearing inside a cubicle in a woman’s toilet, although they may look twice when he is washing his hands at the sink. I doubt I would feel threatened, although some would, girls on their own, perhaps, and so I would think that if they are decent they would try to avoid public toilets. These men - this small percent who are not fetishists - I imagine are appalled at what is going on, they don’t want to be noticed, they don’t want others screaming for their rights, they just want to be convincing women. So that’s fine, each to their own. As for the others, well, what kind of person makes a big, showy deal of his sexual fetish? A dangerous, perverted person, I would say, and one the rest of us should ignore and certainly not indulge. That’s common sense, isn’t it?

More people are speaking the word that shall not be spoken.

SirSamuelVimesBlackboardMonito · 17/07/2020 20:13

That comment is an absolute blinder, Jelly. And you're right, people are speaking up.

Datun · 17/07/2020 21:47

@SirSamuelVimesBlackboardMonito

That comment is an absolute blinder, Jelly. And you're right, people are speaking up.
I hope so. It's the emperors new clothes on acid.
Clymene · 18/07/2020 07:40

Hatpin's response to the HoC paper on gender reassignment referred to the study in Oxfordshire of why people wanted to transition.

I'd forgotten about it but it seems very relevant here: " reasons for non referral included ... seeking gender reassignment to facilitate or normalise paedophilia. This latter small group described gender reassignment as a means by which to increase their intimate contact with children, which they viewed to be more socially acceptable in a female role."

www.cambridge.org/core/journals/the-psychiatrist/article/gender-reassignment-5-years-of-referrals-in-oxfordshire/6B5F217162ABD9B3189F2EB82787034E/core-reader

BovaryX · 18/07/2020 07:44

When the state broadcaster knowingly lies we are all in big trouble

On this subject, the BBC edited a picture to remove a guy wielding a plank of wood at a 'peaceful' demonstration. It was only forced to reinstate the unedited version because someone found the original image. Absolutely dire.

InfiniteSheldon · 18/07/2020 08:23

I've just cancelled my licence fee direct debit and am compiling examples of the BBC breaching it's charter adding this one. One of the key things here, with regards to the behaviour of the BBC, is that the perpetrator is legally a man not a woman. Their reporting is intentionally false with the intention of altering the public conscience with regards to females being statistically insignificant in sex crimes.

HandsOffMyRights · 18/07/2020 08:36

Thanks to James again for keeping this subject high on the Spectator's news agenda and for taking the BBC to task. They have been captured time and time again and need to be held to account.

PapsofJura · 18/07/2020 08:55

I never thought that I would live in a world in which I would need to refer to the Daily Mail over the BBC for accurate reporting. Absolutely shocking.