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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Easy as PIE – the rebranding of paedophilia

46 replies

stumbledin · 16/07/2020 23:47

There's been quite a lot on facebook about this, and now the Morning Star have published an article. Its really disturbing this renewed attempt to legitimise the sexual explotation of children. And horrible to know that the UK is so prominent in this, and the number of adult men who go to countries in Asia with the specific purpose of abusing children.

Trauma expert Dr JACQUI DILLON reports how she was intimidated and had her Twitter account suspended for raising questions about ‘minor-attracted persons’ amid a worrying trend of dangerous child abusers becoming organised online

morningstaronline.co.uk/article/f/easy-pie-rebranding-paedophilia

Some might find parts of this article disturbing.

OP posts:
Gwynfluff · 17/07/2020 06:50

Brave woman on many fronts. Paedophilia does not need to be destigmatised.

BadgertheBodger · 17/07/2020 07:01

Absolutely agree it doesn’t need to be destigmatised. She’s incredibly brave, there seem to be no depths these disgusting men will not sink to

Siablue · 17/07/2020 08:33

That is such a powerful article this is an issue which deserves much wider coverage. Good on the Morning Star for publishing this.

I find it staggering that this is Twitter’s actual policy. That is obviously why you can be banned for mentioning grooming.

IloveJKRowling · 17/07/2020 09:00

I am increasingly of the opinion that if twitter were shut down the world would be a much better place. Great article, thanks OP.

hoodathunkit · 17/07/2020 10:33

OP

I have not yet read the article, but Jacqui Dillon is very well known to me as a promoter of recovering repressed memories of satanic ritual abuse via body psychotherapy.

I have a lot of notes about her and about her connection to some extremely abusive organisations (including the ISSTD - a significant promoted of bizarre theories about non-binary, queer and multiple gender identities), will post in a moment.

For the avoidance of doubt - I am not saying that Dillon is a bad person.

I have read her website extensively and have also watched her videos and made notes.

My provisional hypothesis is that Dillon is a vulnerable adult who has been brainwashed and is being manipulated by some very abusive quacks.

I would be very open to sharing lots of evidence to back up my claims, however I am very behind with various tasks and also this is a huge subject.

Will post some evidential links in a moment, have to check my notes

hoodathunkit · 17/07/2020 10:37

Dillon’s “resources” page on her personal website recommends the book The Body Remembers, authored by the notorious quack Bessel van der Kolk, about whom I have posted previously. Van der Kolk is one of a number of extremely controversial “trauma specialists” (many with links to disgusting neo-tantric sex cults) who claim that memories of non-recent sexual abuse, including satanic ritual abuse, can be recovered via “body therapy” (sometimes a euphemism for "yoni massage"). In my extensive bitter personal experience of contact with these quacks, they are responsible for alienating vulnerable people with mental health problems from their families and exploiting them in a variety of odious ways.

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20191223134221/www.jacquidillon.org/resources/trauma/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20191223134221/www.jacquidillon.org/resources/trauma/

Dillon’s webpage on “abuse, trauma, healing and recovery” recommends Dillon’s webpage titled “ Abuse, Trauma, Healing & Recovery” recommends several organisations notorious for promoting conspiracy theories about satanic ritual abuse. One of these organisations, the ISSTD, is also significantly involved in promoting bizarre theories about non-binary and multiple gender identities.

The same page recommends some extremely controversial books such as “The Courage to Heal” - an utterly batshit tome authored by new age charlatans that posits the theory that is you experience medically unexplained symptoms or fail in various areas of your life, or have done bad things that you cannot reconcile with how you like to see yourself, it is because you were sexually abused as a child. If you cannot remember being abused, this is because the abuse was so traumatic that you repressed the memory. In fact not being able to remember sexual abuse is a sure sign that you were abused.

Also listed as recommended books are

Levine, P. (1997). Waking the Tiger: Healing Trauma – The Innate Capacity to Transform Overwhelming Experiences. New York: North Atlantic Books.

Levine, P. (2008). Healing Trauma: A Pioneering Program for Restoring the Wisdom of Your Body. Boulder, CO: Sounds True Inc.

Peter Levine is an extremely controversial author, beloved of new agers, yogis and mindfulness advocates, who claims to be able to recover memories of trauma, including non-recent sexual abuse, via body psychotherapy. Because the body remembers what the mind cannot. Or something. <a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20191223134221/www.jacquidillon.org/resources/trauma/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20191223134221/www.jacquidillon.org/resources/trauma/
also recommended is the book
Rothschild, B. (2000). The Body Remembers: The psychophysiology of trauma and trauma treatment. London: W. W. Norton & Co.

another book claiming that repressed memories of sexual abuse can be recovered via “body psychotherapy”. Babette Rothschild’s books and training courses are loved by various sex cultists who claim to be able to recover memories of sexual abuse via “yoni massage”.

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20191223134221/www.jacquidillon.org/resources/trauma/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20191223134221/www.jacquidillon.org/resources/trauma/

For any readers who doubt that Dillon’s life and work are very far down the rabbit hole of SRA conspiracies, the final proof of the pudding is in Dillon’s page about “Ritual Abuse” in which she recommends a number of quacks, charlatans and abusive organisations promoting SRA narratives

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20191222021923/www.jacquidillon.org/resources/ritual-abuse/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20191222021923/www.jacquidillon.org/resources/ritual-abuse/

hoodathunkit · 17/07/2020 10:51

I have read the article, via the archive of course

I find it fascianting that somone who has been on my radar for some time, has appeared on a communist news source, "exposing" issues that, let's face it, many readers here have posted about and known about for some time.

She may very well have experienced an abusive twitter pile on (nobody would deny that this is awful) but we have to be cautious and curious about what this is all really about, especially given the levels of manipuation and fake news about sexual abuse, child sexual abuse and SRA.

In many ways Jacqui Dillon's story is similar to that of Carol Felstead aka Carol Myers, a nurse who suffered from psychosis and who was treated via some notorious "trauma specialist" quacks. .

Carol got fed up with her various "trauma specialist" abusers and expressed a wish to return to her loving family, the same family who she had previously accused of being murdering, sexually abusive satanists.

Not long afterwards Carol died in extremely suspicious circumstances.

All need to proceed with extreme caution here

I can post much more about the wider issues when I have a moment

hoodathunkit · 17/07/2020 10:59

If you cannot remember being abused, this is because the abuse was so traumatic that you repressed the memory. In fact not being able to remember sexual abuse is a sure sign that you were abused.

I just want to add that I have been on the receiving end of quack therapy from a notorious SRA promoting therapist who invited me to believe that I had been abused by a satanic cult because

  1. I could not remember the abuse - a sure sign of being abused
  2. I did not believe the accounts of another person in the therapy group who had "recovered" memories of being abused by a satanic cult - a sure sign that I must have experienced SRA myself and repressed the memories
  3. I once wore different to usual clothing to the session ( I was meeting a friend and wanted to look nice) - a sure sign I had DID

I have very extensicve personal experience of this nonsense

Sorry, have to go for now - more later

hoodathunkit · 17/07/2020 11:26

Someone who shares Dillon's enthusiasm for body psychotherapy generally and the work of Peter Levine and Babette Rothschild specifically is none other than Mike Lousada

archive.is/vbIl3

remember him?

He's the one that changed the life and personal trajectory of former feminist Naomi Wolf via his yoni massaging services

some text from a Times article reproduced on one of Lousada's websites (via the archive)

"What is his modus operandi, I asked.

“We start with massaging the body ... we move into working on the yoni. First we work externally. When it’s appropriate I would ask if it’s okay to enter with my fingers. This is a sacred space. It is the holy of holies of your body. No one may enter without your permission. I ask, ‘Goddess, may I enter?’

“If I get the consent, I check with the yoni to see. I place my fingers at the entrance and if she is ready to receive me, it will draw me in.”

He continued that he advised men never to enter if “the yoni doesn’t say yes too”. I had to admit I thought that would be good advice to give to young men as part of their basic education.

Does he ever have intercourse with his clients? “I don’t generally have intercourse with my clients unless it is extremely therapeutic.”

He re-stated that he generally worked with his hands.

Within 30 seconds I was in a state of — yes — bliss. Within five minutes I was laughing and within 10 minutes I was in an altered state Do clients usually have orgasms? “Generally,” he replied, “but that’s not the goal. I have three types of client. [The first is] women who come to me because they are not happy with their relationships, with their own masculine or feminine. They are over-identified with the masculine. They yearn for a masculine man but are not attracting that because they are in their masculine themselves.”"

source:

archive.is/sDpZA

be very careful everyone

due diligence and careful examination of the facts is required

What I will say is that, in my extensive personal experience of these issue, many people who claim to have been sexually abused by cults have indeed been sexually abused by cults. Just the cults that abuse them are not satanic cults of the "Devil Rides Out" kind, they are nasty, sexually predatory neo-tantric and pseudo-shamanic cults.

hoodathunkit · 17/07/2020 12:25

Just a quick revision of my above post

Lousada failed in his attempt to get Wolf to have his "yoni massage"

for some reason some of the text disappeared when I C&Ped the text

I am concered that this gives a false impression of Wolf's "session" with him

fuller C&P below

"There, once again, we got into a negotiation: he was intent on a yoni massage, and I — reader, it was such a potentially sexual situation, with no lotuses, no vague deniability — I couldn’t go there. I was in bed with an attractive strange man and there was no way to pretend that what he was proposing would not be sex. The nice Jewish girl in me once again drew a line.

“Can’t we do some ... body work?” I asked.

He looked insulted. “Yoni work is what I do,” he said, with professional pride. Finally we agreed: he would work with me non-sexually and I would keep my shirt and sarong on.

Well: within 30 seconds I was in a state of — yes — bliss. Within five minutes I was laughing and within 10 minutes I was in an altered state. What was he doing? Nothing except tracing the meridian lines — the energy pathways — of my body with the tips of his fingers."

Wolf went on to write her much derided book "Vagina" following her session with Lousada

a review here is interesting
www.newstatesman.com/blogs/sci-tech/2012/09/naomi-wolfs-vagina-full-bad-science-about-brain

Siablue · 17/07/2020 12:28

Goodness hoodathunkit you know a lot about this topic. Is there anyone trying to prevent this who isn’t dodgy.

Kantastic · 17/07/2020 12:34

notorious quack Bessel van der Kolk

I really feel I have to interject something here. Bessel van der Kolk is not a quack. He's very well-respected. The idea that trauma is stored in the body isn't even controversial; it's a truism because it's true. As far as I'm aware he has no connection with neo-tantric movements other than the very broad umbrella of "bodywork."

I don't know if there is any point in making this interjection but I wouldn't like for someone who is looking for resources to deal with trauma to be put off looking into van der Kolk's work by this.

SunsetBeetch · 17/07/2020 13:00

These are all facts:

MAPS are real
There are MAPS on twitter
Twitter is tolerant of MAPS
MAPS get people suspended for criticising them

With all that in mind, I can well believe that this woman has been subjected to abuse by these people, regardless of what other things she may have said and done.

Thanks for the warning though Hoodathunkit - definitely we need to keep keeping in mind the sources of things.

And Noami Wolf is an even bigger nut than I thought!

stumbledin · 17/07/2020 13:55

Quite often the source of important stories are not themselves squeaky clean.

For me the issue is not the messenger but that appears to be an attempt to rebrand padopphilia as a strand of sexual expression of "minor attracted person".

If someone has links that shows this claim isn't true and in fact paedopphilia is decreasing would be interested to hear those.

This issue is about exploitation of children and how "choice" culture seems to be enabling this as valid behaviour by adults.

hoodathunkit - would you like to start our own thread on your topic and ask MNHQ to delete your very lengthy messages and just have a link to your thread on here. It just comes over as being a bit obsessive and derails the issue.

OP posts:
stumbledin · 17/07/2020 13:58

Pedophiles rebranding themselves as 'Minor-Attracted Persons’, seek same protection as LGBT community: Report

meaww.com/outrage-as-pedophiles-use-social-media-platforms-to-rebrand-themselves-as-minor-attracted-persons

Sadly I used the Morning Star link as the other coverage is in the Daily Mail, which I have used that someone would have come and derailed the discussion and saying no one should click on a DM link!

Hopefully link above gives an indication of the DM report.

OP posts:
Apileofballyhoo · 17/07/2020 14:42

I've seen MAP accounts on Twitter. Very disturbing.

XXSex · 17/07/2020 14:50

Scary TED talk here on how it’s a sexual orientation and we shouldn’t call them out as that will drive it underground.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 17/07/2020 14:50

It's like arguing that we should destigmatize murder and cannibalism. No, let's not do that.

MrsWooster · 17/07/2020 14:53

Funnily enough i just bought this book as part of my reading around somatic responses to trauma. I’ll report back when I’ve read it but I am very cautious about dismissing material /authors by association : “Babette Rothschild’s books and training courses are loved by various sex cultists who claim to be able to recover memories of sexual abuse”

Rothschild and P Levine, for his work on trauma, have been recommended by my extremely experienced and respected supervisor, so forgive me if I retain an open mind...

it’s too easy to lose sight of the main issue-fighting the normalisation of paedophilia- because we have a personal or kneejerk reaction to individuals concerned. I have long revered Peter Tatchell for his fight against clause 28 back in the day, but I have to get past that and see /hear what he is saying now...

Stripesgalore · 17/07/2020 14:54

I agree with Kantastic. The Body Keeps the Score is a really mainstream book. I’ve just read it and the recommended types of therapy in it are normal.

Cloud1921 · 17/07/2020 15:43

Just like to chime in that as the parent of a sexually abused child I've read the body keeps the score by Bessel van der Kolk cover to cover. It's not quack science. It's all very main stream and well known therapies and was recommended by our local child sexual support pet org.

As a parent of a child directly impacted by what he was talking about it was extremely helpful to read. Please don't let someone put you off reading this book, it really was very useful to me.

IloveJKRowling · 17/07/2020 16:11

It's like arguing that we should destigmatize murder and cannibalism. No, let's not do that.

Yes, what kittens said.

Goosefoot · 17/07/2020 16:31

I feel like "destigmatise" is totally the wrong word.

It should be possible for people who are cursed with inappropriate sexual urges to seek out help in eliminating or controlling them, from appropriate medical people. And this should be able to be done without being reported to the police etc.

But I don't really see Twitter as being a place that can handle that kind of serious problem.

hoodathunkit · 18/07/2020 11:53

Goodness hoodathunkit you know a lot about this topic. Is there anyone trying to prevent this who isn’t dodgy.

Firstly, I know enough about this to know that there is a whole lot more that I do not know about. Beware of anyone who attempts to be a figurehead, leader or person with expertise in relation to the issues. I know a vast amount but there is so much more to know about and all my findings are provisional until validated by evidence. I am in possession of a lot of evidence, an overwhelming amount in fact. However, even with evidence, one has to maintain a position of not knowing and of being open to new evidence.

Image those traditional Russian nesting dolls. You look at one and inside is another, the another. Or a hall of mirrors where it is almost impossible to know what it real and what is a reflection. This is the challenging situation in which we find ourselves. Multiple layers that appear to be real, but that may be illusory. Holding on to not knowing is incredibly important.

Secondly, being an ordinary member of the public I sometimes (quite often in fact) make mistakes. I try hard not to, however I have been exhausted and running on empty for a long time and due to my refusal to accept a diagnosis of DID (and all the many benefits that come with it, especially if one joins the SRA promoting circus) I am living in extremely challenging circumstances. The incredible stress of my every day life means that I may make mistakes. I am not perfect by a long shot.

Thirdly, re people being “dodgy”. Unfortunately, in the world of body psychotherapy, body memories, recovered memories of satanic ritual abuse, new age quack psychotherapies and the like, the whole arena is full of well meaning useful idiots, vulnerable people who have been manipulated, naive well meaning therapists and some very serious criminals and sexual predators. I am not always in a position to say who is “dodgy” and who is a well meaning person caught up in a cultic milieu.

In the case of, for example, Bessel van der Kolk it is incredibly easy to identify some seriously dodgy activities and connections that it will be my pleasure to share with readers. I will illustrate my concerns re van der Kolk and his associates on another thread.

Just very briefly, Bessel van der Kolk is an academic fraud, is married to a trainer at the Source School of Tantra (an extremely controversial organisation facing multiple allegations of rape and sexual abuse), had / has? a close working relationship with the disgraced former Rabbi and paedophile Marc Gafni and was sacked from his position at the Trauma Center for his misogynistic bullying of female colleagues. These are not unfounded allegations. The evidence is easily found all over the internet by anyone who can be bothered to look.

The terrifying thing is that Bessel van der Kolk is promoted as reputable by countless psychotherapists and psychotherapy training courses, as evidenced by some of the posts on this thread.

I will start a new thread on psychotherapy and cults to help educate readers about some of the centrally important issues.

Quite often the source of important stories are not themselves squeaky clean.

Of course. Nobody on the planet is “squeaky clean”. There is a huge difference between “not being squeaky clean” and being a major promoter of SRA conspiracy theories and claiming to be an SRA survivor.

For me the issue is not the messenger but that appears to be an attempt to rebrand padopphilia as a strand of sexual expression of "minor attracted person”.

For me the issue is that whatever battle we are fighting, whatever hills each of might fight and die on, our cause will be astroturfed and appropriated by sinister forces, very often using a vulnerable adult as a human asset.

It is also not uncommon for the astroturfing agent to be subjected to extreme bullying via twitter and other social media. This wave of bullying gives them credence and enhances their “brand” as a leader, victim and survivor. It also makes it difficult for any skeptical persons to express skepticism without being vulnerable to accusations of being a bully.

As for the MAPs issue. It may be that the term MAP has some milage in terms of professionals working to prevent child sexual abuse who work with a cohort of people who may pose a risk of contact offending against minors but who have not yet contact offended. It may not. I do not know.

The term has definitely been appropriated by sinister forces and we can notice this and report it, but we, as always, have to be careful not to throw the baby out with the bath water. So, for the sake of argument, if an academic working with adults at risk of contact offending but who have not actually contact offended uses the term MAP in an academic paper does it mean that that academic is “dodgy”? I do not think that it necessarily does mean that. It may be that the term, in the literature, is used to describe a cohort that has been convicted for non-contact offences but not for contact offences Just thinking aloud. I am simply saying that we need to be alert to nuance in all situations and to beware of the pendulum swing from one entrenched position to another.

OK, so early this morning I did a bit of research and can demonstrate, fairly clearly, some fascinating issues.

This is going to get interesting.

I discovered a highly relevant narrative about MAPs on a fascinating website

This narrative is of interest to readers. It appears on a website for a project called “The Global Prevention Project" and it says:

"Minor attracted person or 'MAP' is a widely acknowledged term used in the global Sex Offender Research and Sex Offender Treatment Community.
We did not invent this term.

MAP is NOT an attempt to 'rebrand' or 'polish' pedophiles. MAP is an umbrella term that includes:

Pedophile: an individual attracted to a pre-pubescent child;
Hebephile: an individual attracted to a pubescent child (11-14) and;
Ephebophile: an individual attracted to a post-pubescent child (i.e., a teen, 15-19).
These terms define an 'attraction' not a 'behavior.' By using these terms we under no circumstances are condoning or accepting the sexual abuse of children. "

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20200718090220/theglobalpreventionproject.org/maps" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20200718090220/theglobalpreventionproject.org/maps

Is the above linked project “dodgy”?

Earlier this morning I had no idea.

As with all thing we have to keep an open mind and examine the evidence.

Having spent some hours researching this It will be my immense pleasure to demonstrate the link between The Global Prevention Project, controversial “trauma expert” Bessel van der Kolk and false memories of satanic ritual abuse.

i need a rest, but will post soon, this is going to be fascinating.

hoodathunkit · 18/07/2020 14:14

Following on from my last post let us examine the organisation The Global Prevention Project (TGPP) in a little more detail - more specifically I would like to look at the founder and her other projects

Firstly their twitter feed is here
twitter.com/Preventionintvn

Initial perusal suggests a relationship with the Prostasia Foundation.

The founder and main person behind the TGPP is a woman called Candice Christiansen, a fascinating person who claims to be on the spectrum and an expert in autism. Christiansen is also featured on the Prostasia website

Candice Christiansen’s twitter account is here
@namasteadvice
#HappilyAutistic- Autism exp
twitter.com/namasteadvice?lang=en

One of Candice Christiansen’s projects is here
www.facebook.com/loveedmovement/

Christiansen’s other main project is the Namaste Center for Healing and this is where it all gets very interesting indeed

The Namaste Center for Healing runs 2-20 day intensive retreats for individual and couples

I notice with interest that their treatment modalities on the retreats include Internal Family Systems Model (“Parts” work). Internal family systems and other “parts” therapies are highly relevant to my interests and should be of interest to anyone interested in divide and conquer. These therapies invite vulnerable people to identify different “parts, “sub-personalities”or “alters” as part of the therapeutic process. Internal Family Systems (IFS) and other “parts”orientated therapies have been implicated in abusive pseudo-therapeutic situations in which vulnerable people recover false memories of incest and satanic ritual abuse, possibly the most widely publicised being those regarding Castlewood Treatment Center in Boston.

The Namaste Healing Center also uses EMDR as a treatment modality. EMDR is an extremely controversial therapy. I will write more about this on another thread about therapy soon.

evidential links:

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20200718100532/www.namasteadvice.com/intensives" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20200718100532/www.namasteadvice.com/intensives

a first person account of Internal Family Systems (IFS) therapy used at Castlewood Treatment Center.

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20200718124208/www.castlewoodvictimsunite.org/single-post/2017/10/22/What-Really-Happens-at-Castlewood" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20200718124208/www.castlewoodvictimsunite.org/single-post/2017/10/22/What-Really-Happens-at-Castlewood

also see these news reports (there are plenty of others for those with time on their hands)

abcnews.go.com/US/therapist-accused-implanting-satanic-memories/story?id=15043529

www.riverfronttimes.com/newsblog/2011/11/29/hypnosis-for-eating-disorder-led-to-false-memories-about-satanic-cult-abuse-suit-says

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2068278/Therapist-used-hypnosis-make-anorexia-patient-believe-satanic-sex-cult.html

The “resources" page on the Namaste Healing Center website is absolutely fascinating
Guess whose books they recommend for trauma recovery?

Why not scroll down and take a look? It is a case of the snake that bites its own tail :)

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20200718101205/www.namasteadvice.com/new-page" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20200718101205/www.namasteadvice.com/new-page

Also recommended on relationship issues, addiction etc. are the works of Pia Mellody, Deepak Chopra and other controversial authors.

Readers may also find the Namaste Healing Center page on “Couples Recovery” enlightening

specifically the following text:

"We are open-minded; LGBTQ, polyamorous, triad, pod, omnisexual friendly, and supportive of a variety of sexual issues, values and beliefs, as long as there is not a violation of anyone’s human rights (i.e., domestic abuse, risk to children, harm to anyone against their consent). We acknowledge that every relationship is unique and couples have their own values and belief systems (i.e., some couples may enjoy polyamory, BDSM, Kink, Fetishism, Furry-Phenom). We do our best to meet individuals where they are at with no judgment. “

source:

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20200718100451/www.namasteadvice.com/couples-recovery" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20200718100451/www.namasteadvice.com/couples-recovery

the page on “our team” is worth a read too -

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20200718100757/www.namasteadvice.com/our-team" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20200718100757/www.namasteadvice.com/our-team

so many rabbit holes
pushed for time, posting now as I would like to encourage readers to explore (via the archive) for themselves.

That's it from me for now :)

Swipe left for the next trending thread