Why don't feminists expect expect male parents to pay for childcare?

[FantaOra]

I am serious in this question. Women seem to deduct the cost of childcare from their own career or earning contribution to the family budget and I don't get why? Why do women do that? It seems to me by doing this we participate in the perception of women's income as subordinate to men's income. Tell me why?

I don't know anyone irl who does this.

I have heard it described this way but not usually by women who would choose the description of feminist.

Real feminists expect men to pay for child care.

They may also look at the overall household budget with one or both parents working.

All the women you see on here posting that they are short of money because of maternity leave, but their parenting partner is doing fine, have not actually learned what feminism means.

@Purpleartichoke

Real feminists expect men to pay for child care.

They may also look at the overall household budget with one or both parents working.

All the women you see on here posting that they are short of money because of maternity leave, but their parenting partner is doing fine, have not actually learned what feminism means.

Nah, to me that means they are in a shit relationship.

And yet every feminist organization out there is saying unless the responsibility for childcare is not the fathers or the mothers women are unavailable in the public domain.

Sorry, just explain that again. Are you saying mums should give their husband a bill for the childcare they do?

And yet every feminist organization out there is saying unless the responsibility for childcare is not the fathers or the mothers women are unavailable in the public domain.

Struggling to decipher that, but "every" ?

The excuse for the gender pay gap according to all feminist organizations is that women can't afford to work.

I don't know any feminist who does this or believes this.

I do know some people who have done a calculation that says: childcare costs x, when I go back from maternity leave I will earn less than x, therefore the cost of childcare is prohibitive and makes it not worth returning to work. They've usually been professional women on their second child, anecdotally, who absolutely intend to return to work once their children are in school.

Work is about more than earning money, of course. But when work actually costs money, ie has an overall negative impact on the total amount of money coming into the home, then it's not anti-feminist to say ' hang on, is it worth that cost.' Different people will come up with different responses to that.

So what's your 'excuse' for the gender pay gap then?

@LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett

I don't know any feminist who does this or believes this.

I do know some people who have done a calculation that says: childcare costs x, when I go back from maternity leave I will earn less than x, therefore the cost of childcare is prohibitive and makes it not worth returning to work. They've usually been professional women on their second child, anecdotally, who absolutely intend to return to work once their children are in school.

Work is about more than earning money, of course. But when work actually costs money, ie has an overall negative impact on the total amount of money coming into the home, then it's not anti-feminist to say ' hang on, is it worth that cost.' Different people will come up with different responses to that.

This is why I don't work. My husband would doubtless be a better SAHP than me, but he earned £10k more when DD was born. (I'm a teacher, he's in IT)

When women participate in the maths that say their only contribution to the human world of work MUST be additional to a male income,we perpetuate the ownership of domesticity as a woman thing.

Huh?

Which feminists are saying childcare is a woman's responsibility solely?

I'm a feminist and I don't.

I know loads of women who think about their earnings in this way, eg 'it's not worth me going back to work because once you take off the child care I'm only earning X'

Also know a lot of households that split their finances so that man pays the mortgage and woman pays the childcare. So if they split, he can often claim (wrongly) that he's kept a roof over their head.

HOWEVER I am a feminist and I absolutely argue that childcare is a cost that should be born by both parents.

@LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett

So what's your 'excuse' for the gender pay gap then?

I am not excusing anything. I am just really disappointed that all feminist organizations characterise the responsibility for the cost of childcare as a barrier to women's work..

It's not.

I am just really disappointed that all feminist organizations characterise the responsibility for the cost of childcare as a barrier to women's work..

I think I understand. Because feminist organizations acknowledge the fact of the burden of childcare on women, you blame them for collaborating in this. Instead, you'd like them to pretend childcare isn't a predominately female burden and this pretence will lead men and companies to treat childcare as an equal burden.

I'm curious how this will work for single mothers when there isn't even a slight pretends of male involvement.

BTW childcare is a shared responsibility in my house. But I don't negate other women's struggles in this area with socialization, expectation and experience.

I think I understand what you mean OP. My view it's the difference between the world we want versus the world we have.

Ideally, caring for children and parents etc would be a topic of conversation in an equal partnership with no penalty for either party in their working life for accomodating those responsibilities.

But the structure of patriarchy exists. Caring responsibilities are assigned to the female sphere. People in shit relationships have to not only arrange it but also exclusively pay for it but there's a much larger swathe of women who "just" arrange it or arrange their work to accommodate caring responsibilities citing it as the "practical" response "as my husband just wants more" (and ignoring the fact that structural sexism has made it that way).

Until we get a universal basic income and we are freed from the need for work to pay for living, family life will always be like this. Essentially the holy trinity of capitalism, patriarchy and racism will always fuck us over and will fuck black poor women over the most.

@MrsTerryPratchett

Huh?

Which feminists are saying childcare is a woman's responsibility solely?

I'm a feminist and I don't.

Well just google every fucking feminist organization anywhere and they will be telling you free childcare is the way forward for women. None of them are advocating for male parents to pay for there childcare. What the fucking feminist fuck is that all about?

"husband earns more" not wants!

Is this a feminist argument? I see childcare costs as a family cost. I didn’t realise it at the time but the biggest economic risk I took in my life was having kids and going part-time for many years when they were little. There was a brilliant article I found the other day about this risk.

I will be advising my kids to always work. It is incredibly risky to stop completely and women leave themselves so vulnerable if there is a relationship breakdown. This gap persists into old age, women have higher debt burdens as they age and lower pensions and incomes.

Gender pay gap is complex. Within an organisation it is that males hold positions that pay more and women hold positions that pay less. Some of that issue to hours. But some of it is due to positioning with men more likely to be in senior positions paying most and women in less senior positions or roles that are paid less. The women may still be working part-time

The gender pay gap in my industry (housing) has nothing to do with childcare and everything to do with mediocre men being promoted above exceptional women.

You seem angry op. I'm not actually clear on what you're claiming every organisation states. Could you perhaps post some links and we'll go have a look and see exactly what the issue is? Happy to discuss from a feminist point of view once it's clearer.

None of them are advocating for male parents to pay for there childcare. What the fucking feminist fuck is that all about?

It's about in the real world where some male parents absent themselves, or others who won't pay? Feminists can't force husbands to treat wives equally.
What, in practical, achievable terms are you proposing feminists should be campaigning for exactly?

OK maybe it's a radical feminist/liberal feminist thing.

Radical says dismantle the structures and rebuild them with children being a priority for all. Also make them the responsibility equally in law plus proper encouragement for that.

Liberal says yeah but while we're hoping for a worldwide revolution by women for women, couldn't we just pay for childcare so women get into the working world as it exists right now?

Amirite?