Why don't feminists expect expect male parents to pay for childcare?

[FantaOra]

I am serious in this question. Women seem to deduct the cost of childcare from their own career or earning contribution to the family budget and I don't get why? Why do women do that? It seems to me by doing this we participate in the perception of women's income as subordinate to men's income. Tell me why?

I agree that the whole “i earn less than the cost of childcare so I will give up work” is a thing for many women, but don’t agree it’s a feminist principle.

What a lot of women don’t think of is taking years off work and/or part time work fucks your pension, let alone the difficulties of finding work after a break, and getting back on the career ladder..

If they did the calculations including pension chances are 3 or 4 years of nursery costs doesn’t make as big an impact on finances as years out of work completely.

Thinking of childcare as a % of joint income and working out affordability would be sensible...

I don't necessarily see it as my cost to cover with my work. We have completely shared finances. Our monthly income is X. If I also work it could increase to Y. However, we'd then have to pay childcare at rate Z, giving us a net income of W, less than X. Therefore, we'll choose the option which gives us the highest income overall, which is where I don't work and we don't pay childcare.

I'm married and the house is in both our names. I'm listed as the beneficiary of all DHs policies and pensions. If we weren't in that situation, I would accept income W for reasons of financial security.

When I first met my husband I earned more than he did. Then I has 3 babies and 3 mat leaves over 6 years and my career stalled. He was promoted 3 times in those years and earned twice what I did.

He paid for more than half our childcare.

However, when we calculated the cost of me returning to work, we took the full value of the childcare off my wage, because if I hadn't been working we would have paid zero childcare costs. That doesn't mean he didn't contribute to actually paying for it.

Many women end up trapped in this position. The husband out earns them so him giving up work or dropping hours is never a consideration, hence free childcare gives women freedom to work.

@ErrolTheDragon

None of them are advocating for male parents to pay for there childcare. What the fucking feminist fuck is that all about?

It's about in the real world where some male parents absent themselves, or others who won't pay? Feminists can't force husbands to treat wives equally.
What, in practical, achievable terms are you proposing feminists should be campaigning for exactly?

I'm advocating for women to take themselves seriously.

I'm advocating for women to not do short term maths on their own economic security.

I'm advocating for the net income of a man with children to be the reference point .

I fully understand the issue of single mothers.

I'm just cognizant of the pricing of female work being entirely dependent on it's ancillary nature to men's work and the fact that all feminist organizations wish to further embed that by removing any male responsibility for paying for the care of their children as and handling it over to socialized Care by the state.

Not feminist.

It’s not that childcare is the reason for the gender pay gap, I don’t think anybody is saying that. It’s the gender pay gap that requires families to assess childcare costs in relation to the mother’s earnings, since mother’s earn less than fathers in most cases.
Prior to having DC, my husband earned more than me despite us both being similarly qualified and both being in full time work. Actually I worked slightly more hours than he did. When I took mat leave and the time came to make a decision on whether one of us would be a SAHP or we’d both go back to work, of course it was quickly apparent that we weren’t wealthy enough to sacrifice the largest salary and so if someone was going to be a SAHP it would be me. Not many people, us included, have jobs where each parent can just work 50% of the time and equally share the earning/childcare burdens. So having decided that the only viable SAHP option was me, we then had to weigh my salary up against childcare costs. It’s not that either of us think “women should pay for childcare”. It’s just the reality for most families that mothers are not the highest earners and that childcare costs need to be assessed in relation to the lowest earner’s salary. It’s not anti-feminist to acknowledge this fact. Acknowledging it is not condoning or supporting it. It’s a bit of a kick in the teeth really to feel like a victim of a huge system that you can’t change as an individual, and then to have some self-appointed gatekeeper to feminism proclaim that you don’t qualify for membership to the club.

This always surprises me. We looked at household income & deducted childcare from that. We did look at different possibilities with us both being fulltime or one fulltime & one part time but never thought if childcare only coming out of one wage only.

@rosy71

This always surprises me. We looked at household income & deducted childcare from that. We did look at different possibilities with us both being fulltime or one fulltime & one part time but never thought if childcare only coming out of one wage only.

And yet every feminist group out there is representing women as entry dependent on state support.

Show me a feminist organisation telling men how to do the maths long term for the equal outcome for women.

Entirely, not entry.

• I'm advocating for women to take themselves seriously.

I'm advocating for women to not do short term maths on their own economic security.
*

We can do that for ourselves, but we can't assume that all women will be able to.

It's not that I disagree with what you're saying in theory - I just can't see how it translates into liberating women in the real world.

@rosy71 but if one parent is going to become a full time SAHP, the childcare is going to have to be paid for solely by the other parent’s wage. It’s a very common setup really to have one full time employed parent and one SAHP. I wouldn’t have thought it’s surprising at all.

Show me a feminist organisation telling men how to do the maths long term for the equal outcome for women.

Do you think that would actually have any effect?

It's not that I disagree with what you're saying in theory - I just can't see how it translates into liberating women in the real world.

And I can't see how assigning the cost of childcare to women is in any way conceivably liberation.

@ErrolTheDragon

Show me a feminist organisation telling men how to do the maths long term for the equal outcome for women.

Do you think that would actually have any effect?

We haven't fucking tried.

And I can't see how assigning the cost of childcare to women is in any way conceivably liberation.

How could feminist organisations in practice intervene in financial discussions between partners to prevent this happening? Do you think men in general would actually listen to feminist organisations telling them how they should do the maths?

@ErrolTheDragon

And I can't see how assigning the cost of childcare to women is in any way conceivably liberation.

How could feminist organisations in practice intervene in financial discussions between partners to prevent this happening? Do you think men in general would actually listen to feminist organisations telling them how they should do the maths?

No. I absolutely don't think men pay any attention at all to feminist organizations demanding free childcare as already have it, and the wimping out of women on the greasy promotion pole, do you actually think men look back at mothers and think anything at all?

A's men already have free childcare

Wow, sure, let's blame women for not somehow having magic power to force men to see childcare as their joint responsibility.

This is just b/s woman blaming - if men aren't doing the right thing, it's because the wife wasn't strong or assertive or smart enough.

How about applying a feminist analysis to the gritty reality of too many relationships, and to the realities of many women's lives?

I'm getting a bit sick of coming into feminist space just to find out what latest Bad Thing women are supposedly responsible for.

Fwiw, I've never been in any feminist space that didn't agitate for state funded childcare.

"Wow, sure, let's blame women for not somehow having magic power to force men to see childcare as their joint responsibility.*

So where did I do anything stupid enough to start talking about magic power?

It's 2020, not 1520.

I opened up a feminist conversation, I don't associate feminism with fantasmic thoughts.

You are blaming individual women for a class problem.

That is not feminist.

@ContentiousOne

You are blaming individual women for a class problem.

That is not feminist.

Blame blah blame. Sorry did you have a point there somewhere?

Do read the title of the thread.

Wow.

00:13IWantT0BreakFree

It’s not that childcare is the reason for the gender pay gap, I don’t think anybody is saying that. It’s the gender pay gap

They are. We are.. every single feminist organization talks about women as the passive victims of a lack of childcare.

Who is going to sort it all out?

Well, you can campaign for free/cheap better childcare or you can campaign to overthrow the patriarchy.

I know which I think has the better chance of success.

@womanaf

Well, you can campaign for free/cheap better childcare or you can campaign to overthrow the patriarchy.

I know which I think has the better chance of success.

Or both and keep your fingers crossed for future generations.