Michaela Coel called out over comments on 'responsibility' and sexual assault

[stumbledin]

Quote:

It doesn’t mean that Arabella [the protagonist of IMDY] is responsible for what happened to her. But she can find, within that scene of when her drink was spiked, she can find herself not being powerless.

When you dare to face that, for me personally, I gained some sort of power. I don’t know why. But when I allowed myself to just look and go ‘And there was the minute when perhaps I was looking somewhere else [...] and that’s when it happened’.

It doesn’t place any blame on me. But to shield me [...], to shield anyone from that moment is to keep someone as an infant.

You’re making them only see it from a two-dimensional view, where there is a victim and a criminal, and the criminal did everything and you did nothing, everything happened to you.

But that is such a powerless way of seeing life. And I don’t know how much we can grow, I don’t know how much we can find our power if we’re only seeing things that way.

www.indy100.com/article/michaela-coel-i-may-destroy-you-sexual-assault-responsibility-9615436

(I haven't watched the series as I just thought it was going to be another tv drama relying on a sexploitation plot, though understand that it now being said to be a feminist / me too drama)

On a related note - I've been in an abusive relationship before and find it very hard to have a conversation about it for this exact same reason. Any time I try to talk about what I did to allow (or even encourage) the abusive behaviour I'm told I'm victim-blaming (myself). I find this really frustrating because I want to arm myself against this kind of thing happening to me again. In fact I've changed a lot of the way I engage with relationships now to make myself less vulnerable to abuse. And yet all of this soul searching I've had to do on my own because no one wants to insinuate that anything was "my fault".

People just love to “call out” other people these days. Even if we agree with someone on 99 things but not on the 100th, then they have to be “cancelled” and debounced. Fuck, we really can’t hold own opinions anymore.

So women should be hyper vigilant to avoid feeling powerless?

I would have thought most of us are hyper vigilant anyway. And it's not to avoid feeling powerless. It's to avoid being assaulted.

I see what she's saying. I guess, it's like seatbelts in a car accident. Wearing one won't stop me being rear ended, and it doesn't make the accident my fault if I am not wearing one and end up going through the windshield... But if I do take a simple precaution and put one on, I can make myself safer in the event someone does do something to me.

Iyswim. Hard to articulate.

I really, really hate the whole victim culture in which people are called out for say, suggesting that women should learn to fight to protect ourselves from rape and other violent assaults

Of course women should learn to fight! If I was in charge of sports ed in this country all girls (and boys) would learn fighting skills, including weapons training.

Obviously this kind of thing can go too far, I am not advocating teaching children a culture in which problems are solved with violence, but what the hell is wrong with teaching kids about the risks you face in life as you grow up and how to defend yourself against them?

What is wrong with teaching kids to learn about discipline and respect for others whilst gaining confidence learning how to deal with potential problems?

There is also a balance to be had.

It seems to me that there is a continuum of beliefs in this respect.

On the one hand, warning women to watch our drinks or suggesting that taking up boxing or martial arts is condemned as victim blaming. This is, IMO, counterproductive. The very first thing any fighter does is to assess the opponent and his / her weapon/s. There is a saying "To know your opponent - know his sword". This is just rational and sensible.

On the other extreme, there is the New Thought movement in which people believe that anything that happens to you is because you chose it at some level. People who drowned in a tsunami chose to drown. People murdered in genocidal atrocities brought it on themselves in some way. An acquanitance years ago once told me that I was ultimately responsible for being sexually abused by my father because my spirit had chosen to be reincarnated in my family of origin. This is disgustingly victim blaming IMO.

Surely there is a Goldilocks zone of culpability in which we accept that we may consiously or unconsciously sometimes expose ourselves to risk, but that also there are some things we have no power over and that sometimes bad things happen to good people?

Surely the strongest path is to identify potential probems and to identify ways of either avoiding them and / or dealing with them effectively?

I see what she's saying. I guess, it's like seatbelts in a car accident. Wearing one won't stop me being rear ended, and it doesn't make the accident my fault if I am not wearing one and end up going through the windshield... But if I do take a simple precaution and put one on, I can make myself safer in the event someone does do something to me.

Great example

Sorry didn't meant to start a thread about "calling out" a woman - I was just lazy and copied the article title.

And lets not forget it is the MSM who is giving power to all the tittle tattle on twitter etc., as most of us have no idea or want to know

Maybe I should ask MNHQ to change title.

I maninly poster as I was interested in the comment.

Does accepting some responsibility make you less powerless.

Does accepting some responsibility make you less powerless.

To some women it does, I've talked about it with them. Others not. Ultimately, as a sexual violence survivor, there's no right or wrong way to deal with it, but you shouldn't assume that your experience speaks for every woman.

I'm not keen on these comments, tbh. But she has the right to express them.

I didn’t mean that as you calling MC out, just whoever originally did, OP.

So wait. This person's argument is that it should be expected that women watch anything we might consume at all times just in case someone decides to slip a drug into it? And not doing so would be irresponsible? The person who drugs the women's drink is not perhaps the one who is failing to take proper responsibility for their actions?

Certainly if it helps make any given woman feel better to be hyper vigilant it's her right to do so, but suggesting that that should be the norm is just not reasonable.

I agree, kittens, but it sounds like she thinks that feeling that you had no power is worse. If she's speaking from experience, which it kind of comes across like she is, she may have used that as a coping mechanism.

However she shouldn't put that on other women, because it's pretty fucked up. Because if you believe you got raped because you let your guard down when you shouldn't, you still are powerless, because it still happened, but you get to blame yourself for it too. You can't take back the power, because it's too late. It's a weird version of the "just world fallacy" I think and one many women who haven't been raped tell themselves will keep them safe. Not ideal, and not the way many women find helpful when dealing with it.

Agreed. Everyone is entitled to their coping mechanisms, and hey, if it works for you then go with that. It's when it's projected onto others that it becomes an issue.

I don't think accepting some responsibility makes you less powerless or makes the perpetrator any less guilty.
When watching this drama I did feel that the character's drug taking was making her extremely vulnerable but that does not mean that a predator has any right to come along and attack her.
These days it is common to be shot down in flames for picking up on this aspect though.
I don't think it is wrong for a woman to think about what they can do to be less vulnerable. Such as not drinking to the point of being inebriated.
Couldn't it be compared to looking both ways before crossing a road or putting your seat belt on? Taking sensible safety precautions which we all do in daily life.
Again to be clear I am not excusing the vile behaviour of predators by saying this.

IMDY is interesting. I haven't watched all of it because it was a bit too distressing, but I do think there have been a number of dramas in recent years that have explored the reality of the 'unlikeable' victim of rape and sexual assault.

I understand the need to feel a sense of agency after rape. Because that bald phrase 'Nothing you did would have made any difference, the rapist is solely responsible' is absolutely true, but, fucking hell, it is so bloody frightening to live with. You do run through events and ask yourself what you could possibly have done differently, and yes, obviously the answer is nothing, but this response is not about responsibility for being attacked, it's about pushing back against the dark terror that you are always utterly vulnerable.

I'm not sure if I've explained that well enough.

Hang on a minute no one should be spiking anyones drinks.
Putting some rohypnol into a woman's or man's drink in order to rape them is completely out of order.
No one should have to watch their drink at all.
30 years ago when I started going to pubs & clubs you could leave your drink on the bar or on a table unattended & the worst thing that would happen was either someone else helping themselves to your drink or the bar staff pouring it away.
Spiking drinks is the fault of the rapist not the victim.

MC is a survivor of sexual assault, and this drama was an exploration of the meaning of consent. I have seen 10 out of 12 episodes and it is an incredible feminist piece. Sounds like the interviewer has twisted some of what she's said to get outrage reads. Just go watch the episodes rather than falling for the ploy.

MC's not saying that Bella (the main character), is responsible for getting spiked or assaulted but that Bella makes herself vulnerable before she was attacked. (She regularly gets sloppy drunk on alcohol and class A drugs)

That's a nuance that all women are familiar with, surely? We're not responsible for when someone attacks us but there are things we can do to reduce the risk. We are not 100% powerless but it's entirely the attacker's fault if we are overpowered.

I see it as if we are entirely powerless, this could happen any and every time we leave the house. Or at home. All the time. We are never ever safe. And while I haven’t experienced rape I have experienced a very scary sexual assault, and understand as FloralBunting put it, the dark terror that you are always utterly vulnerable. If I can tell myself that there was something I could do, pinpoint where it went wrong, other than he is a rapist I can give myself the power to be confident enough to go out again and live life without the debilitating knowledge that it could happen again at any time and there’s nothing I can do about it

That’s how I see it.

I understand the need to feel a sense of agency after rape. Because that bald phrase 'Nothing you did would have made any difference, the rapist is solely responsible' is absolutely true, but, fucking hell, it is so bloody frightening to live with. You do run through events and ask yourself what you could possibly have done differently, and yes, obviously the answer is nothing, but this response is not about responsibility for being attacked, it's about pushing back against the dark terror that you are always utterly vulnerable.

I think you're right. I think this is actually a psychological defence mechanism from someone who's been a victim. It's similar to when Chrissie Hynde seemed to blame herself for being gang raped. Obviously it's complete nonsense - the only person responsible for a rape is the rapist. But perhaps it makes the victim feel better, in some way, to believe otherwise.

It’s pretty disgusting to judge someone who’s a sexual assault survivor for making an entirely personal statement saying “this is what made me personally feel less powerless.”

It's what the brain does. So sometimes helpful, sometimes damaging.

I really dislike the conversation surrounding victimhood.

Women already feel terribly at fault when anything bad sexual happens to them - society makes sure about that. They already KNOW that every time they go out of their front door they're taking a risk. Most women already look behind them a lot when it starts getting dark. They already avoid dark long streets. They guard their drinks and taken them with them to the toilet. They look out for their friends. Sometimes they avoid giving intimate details away too soon when they date someone, They let others know where they are wnd what their plans for the evening. They tell their dauhters to be careful. They already find umpteen ways to blame themselves given the opportunity, so they don't need to other people contributing to that.

We already love to focus in on the sexual assault victim as a society. Simply because rape is such a terrible thing that we collectively don't want it to haooen, or we want to find a reason why it couldn't *possible' happen to us. So we start picking apart the victim's story looking for holes, looking for blame, looking for reasons why......when really that intense focus should be on the perpetrator.

happen*

IMDY in my opinion is brilliant and it gave me so many things to think about on this topic of consent, and responsibility, and how different people interpret and experience things differently.
MC is talking here about her own experience and views as a survivor of serious sexual assault, and we need to talk about it.
I'd really recommend watching IMDY but it does have very graphic scenes so could well be uncomfortable to say the least.

It's a great series. I'm nearly at the end (3 eps to go?) and there's so much in there to think about.

There's several different kinds of rape and assault - the main character is not only the victim of drink spiking and a subsequent assault she doesn't remember, but she dates someone she thinks is a good guy (nice, successful, intelligent, well respected) who takes the condom off during sex without her consent. She publicly shames him for rape. Her best female friend, while drunk in Italy, is involved in a threesome that she thinks is spontaneous but has actually been set up by the men involved who deliberately targeted her because she was vulnerable. Her best male friend, who's gay, undergoes rough non-consensual sex on a grindr hook up. Traumatised by this he then hooks up with a woman on tinder (I think) in the hope that sex with a woman won't be so triggering for him. She discovers he's gay after they have sex and realises he's used her for something she didn't consent to.

The writing and acting are both brilliant. There's a really interesting absence of the usual victim narrative and perspective - the way the friends joke with each other in the police station while they're waiting to report the main character's rape, and then when they go back for the DNA report results, unsettles the police victim support people, and the viewer because it's unexpected and seems inappropriate. It shows the complexity of rape, but also drives home the shocking reality of how commonplace it is.

At the start of one episode Arabella reads an essay about rape, racism and feminism to her agents, and I had tears sliding down my cheeks within 5 minutes of the episode starting. (It's here if anyone wants to watch. 2 minutes in. Only a minute long. www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000kk4c/i-may-destroy-you-series-1-7-happy-animals )

@TracyBeakerSoYeah

Hang on a minute no one should be spiking anyones drinks. Putting some rohypnol into a woman's or man's drink in order to rape them is completely out of order. No one should have to watch their drink at all. 30 years ago when I started going to pubs & clubs you could leave your drink on the bar or on a table unattended & the worst thing that would happen was either someone else helping themselves to your drink or the bar staff pouring it away. Spiking drinks is the fault of the rapist not the victim.

? Maybe not where you were. But 30yrs ago, at my university we had a serial rapist that used rophynol (roofies) then dumped the still unconscious victims in a university car park and it was common knowledge that your drink could be spiked.

I think it’s poorly worded, but it’s true that power comes from not feeling so helpless. You can make yourself a hard target instead of a more vulnerable soft target. This empowers you to go back out into the world.

It’s not taking responsibility, that stays with the rapist(s) 100%, it’s more about feeling the fear and then taking steps that can make you less vulnerable which then reduces your fear to a level you can live with and still function normally.