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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Can I vent here?

57 replies

HarryHarry · 10/07/2020 02:21

I posted on another thread about how I’ve fallen out with my closest friend here (where I live, not the UK) after challenging her about JKR. She wrote “Fuck TERFS” in a post about JKR, I asked her what she thought JKR had said or done wrong, and that led to a huge argument which culminated in us agreeing never to discuss this topic again in order to save our friendship.

Throughout the argument, I tried to make it clear that I supported trans people (genuine ones, not your Travis Alabanza types) but that I did not agree with everything that was being done in their name. I gave her examples of things I had seen and heard during my time as a teacher in the UK. She did not respond to any of the points I made except to deliberately misinterpret them, conveniently ignoring the parts that didn’t fit her narrative of what a TERF is like. Instead she just shouted slogans like “Trans women are women!” and “Trans rights are human rights!” (the latter is not even in question). She also said she thought it was “sad” that I felt my womanhood was “threatened” by theirs. But the thing that really got me was when she said she thought a transwoman’s right to feel safe and comfortable in public spaces was more important than a woman’s (because of course they are the most vulnerable, the most oppressed group ever). I honestly could not believe that a self-proclaimed feminist could ever say that.

Anyway weeks later we have still not seen or spoken to each other so I guess our friendship is over even though we tried to pretend it wasn’t. What I need to vent about is that she is now flooding her social media with screenshots of tweets from people like Munroe Bergdorf and anti-GC memes including pictures of guns with slogans like “Arm Trans Women” and “Support Trans Rights or Die”. This, by the way, is from an otherwise liberal, anti-gun, Democrat voter from the US. I feel that these are clearly aimed at me as she had clearly never mentioned trans issues until JKR.

The war on women has really affected my mental health, which tbh was already in a bit of a precarious state, but it has been made worse by her posting things like “Support trans rights or die” because I feel like she is saying that I, personally, deserve to die simply for disagreeing with her.

I have of course deactivated all my social media accounts to avoid seeing this shit but I sometimes have to log back in to check for news about the local groups that I am part of and stumble upon her posts.

Please someone help me understand why a person who is not even trans herself and has no close trans friends can feel so strongly about this issue? I used to think she was intelligent and discerning. How a person who prides herself on being anti-fascist cannot see the irony in her own attitudes and behaviour (calling for book banning/burning, compelled speech, censorship, cancelling, violence/death for non-believers, deliberately misinterpreting people’s words in order to denounce them, etc) is just staggering.

OP posts:
midgebabe · 10/07/2020 22:26

You can support whoever you want.

There is also a question of what you mean by support ...support as in agree with without question is quite different to support for injustice to be overcome

Personally, I do think differently between those who have had surgery and those who haven't and also think differently about those who transition as children and those who transition as adults

HarryHarry · 10/07/2020 22:29

Yes I know, that was the point of my argument with my friend. To her, “support” means unconditionally rather than to simply believe they should be free to live as they choose (with some exceptions). Those exceptions to her make me a transphobe.

OP posts:
Kettlingur · 10/07/2020 23:19

What I can't stand is the hypocrisy and the cognitive dissonance of my libfem friends. They'll post stuff about the horrors of rape culture and then their next post is someone holding a sign saying "terfs can choke on my dick"

Antibles · 10/07/2020 23:27

I think your friend just hasn't engaged in critical thinking and realised that LGB and T are not the same thing. One is about who you fancy and the other is about what sex/gender you yourself feel/say you are.

The T has cleverly hidden behind the LGB for a long time so that people apply the same thinking to it even though the concepts and issues involved are completely different.

That's what I reckon anyway.

Also many people have the desire to be kind to people who claim to be victimised, an instinct which narcissistic chancers play upon.

HarryHarry · 10/07/2020 23:48

@Kettlingur Yes exactly!

OP posts:
R0wantrees · 11/07/2020 10:13

Are you saying that we shouldn’t support even - for want of a better phrase - old-school transsexuals? (Sorry if I have misunderstood).

No I would never tell someone they should not support other people.
I would encourage people, especially women, to always think critically and reflectively about the nature of the support they provide to others and the power dynamics involved.

Michelleoftheresistance · 11/07/2020 14:22

They'll post stuff about the horrors of rape culture and then their next post is someone holding a sign saying "terfs can choke on my dick"

Quite.

Very happy to accept difference of political belief, each to their own.

Support violent murder of anybody for your politics - and I want nothing whatsoever to do with you. There's no difference between someone who thinks like this and slave traders/Nazis/any other genocide leaders in history, you just are choosing to aim your abhorrent dehumanisation and violence at your own selected group instead of theirs. Get to fuck with that.

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