The Guardian here we go agan

[Kit19]

more handwringing and why cant we just be nice??

Im so bored of this shit

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jul/09/transgender-people-equal-rights-self-identification-gender-recognition-act

"Are there experiences that make a woman real, anyway? Periods? Giving birth? Many women don’t experience the latter, some don’t experience the former. Or perhaps it is about knowing what a life spent reeling from the objectification of men feels like? Dealing with sexual violence and harassment? But, no: trans women face sexual violence, too"

the experiences that make a woman real are being an adult human female - HTH

The Guardian has also published a piece in the wake of the Cumberlege report about how women - the biological kind - have been treated badly by the medical profession.

The cognitive dissonance is off the scale.

It’s was the sign off that struck me:

‘ Trans people are saying they are frightened and in pain because people are questioning their rights, and we’re not listening. Where will this end?’

Because all the insistence on ‘listening’ only goes one way? Why must we listen, when TRAs have no intention of listening themselves?

"Are there experiences that make a woman real, anyway?“

Well possibly not seeing us as cartoon characters/stereotypes might help some people.

Here's a few reasons why I know I'm different as a woman/female -different from a male.

1. Periods - yes, I had them & I had to cope with the nuisance of them, as no man does. I'm also post-menopausal, so I've gone through all that.

1. Childbirth - no, I haven't gone through that. But I had to: decide whether I wanted children or not; take precautions which had potential impacts on my own health & never any on my DH's health, & I had to switch to something else when my body wouldn't tolerate the pill; worry when my period was late & start thinking very seriously when it was very late; after discussion with my DH, use the morning-after pill following a burst condom - again, my body not his. And always know that if anything went wrong, it was my body that was involved, not his.

1. Know that I might get pregnant if I were ever raped & worry about changes to the abortion law when some people were arguing that abortions should not be available even after rape.

1. Leaving aside physical things, I was treated differently because I was a girl, & I saw the way women were (in many ways still are) treated in society. I lived with trying to work out what I wanted to do & how to do it in a world which wasn't (still isn't) made for me & IS made for another group of people entirely.

That's enough to be going on with.

And as for the 'not all women have periods' argument, that's just really, really stretching a point. A female body which disfunctions is not the same as a male body. It's like saying a car isn't a car when it runs out of petrol. I mean you're right in that it won't go anywhere, but it's still a car.

If you want to be cheered up, here's the author touting her piece on twitter and the responses she's getting:

mobile.twitter.com/eleanormorgan/status/1281233749586464768

Trans women seem, from prison population, to commit sexual offences at male rates. I'm not interested in sharing places where we're vulnerable with people with male bodies, and male propensity to harm women. Do I care that those people are safe, too, from male violence? Yes. It it women's duty to sacrifice themselves in order to keep another group of male people, at risk of male violence, safe? No.

That's not anti trans. It's not anti men to keep them out, or to say that yes, most are lovely, but as a group they pose a huge risk to us and therefore all stay out, because we can't know which are which. It's just reality.

Expecting women to sacrifice all our own sense of safety, and indeed our actual safety, to cater to a group born male is misogyny.

@Deliriumoftheendless

"Are there experiences that make a woman real, anyway?“

Well possibly not seeing us as cartoon characters/stereotypes might help some people.

It's a real mystery, how they select which people from the human population to genitally mutilate. How did they know who could vote, back in the day? Who could own property? Who had the rights, across almost all cultures and periods in history, and who had the babies? All so terribly confusing!

So basically: “Women, it is up to you to look after men who wish they were women This is your problem”.
At no point does Morgan suggest that men have any responsibility for transwomen. As always it’s left to women.

Morgan is all about compromise, she seems to say, yet she uses the term ‘cis’, which she knows is rejected by those she says should do the compromising. I find it interesting I thought The Guardian had decided that ‘cis’ and ‘cisgender’ should not be used. Did I imagine this?

She's actually flogging a book about how hormones affect women.

We're a myth love, you must be imagining things.

People will say ANY THING for a few quid.

"Trans women can be seen as “real” women without their biology being used as an oppressive tool against them."

How can something that makes you (tend to be) stronger than another group be used as an 'oppressive tool'?

Why did you expect anything different from the Guardian? They’ve been peddling this shit for nearly 10 yrs. The guardian fundamentally hates women - stop thinking they are going to change.

Trans people women are saying they are frightened and in pain because people are questioning their rights, and we’re not listening. Where will this end?’

There, fixed it for you, Blahdian.

I’ve kept myself quite calm and non-sweary for a while. But for that woman to respond to the concerns about traumatising survivors in refuges with male bodies in their spaces by saying its been going on for a while and everything is fine tra la la! 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

"Are there experiences that make a woman real, anyway?“

Oh God give me strength

One of my 'Wokey blokey' FB friends posted a link to this article. I had to hold myself back from commenting. But I am seething at the pathetic 'journalism' behind this. I came straight in here to see what you lot thought. I have had enough of this shit!!!

I read the article and not once does she mention transmen.

The article would have been much more balanced if she'd addressed their experiences with female biology and presenting as a man in society.
I don't for one minute believe your average man would perceive a trans man as a real man. So are they not also at risk from abuse?

Instead the article is another long appeal to women to be kind to the hurting transwomen who want to use our spaces.
No mention of the fact that self-id would open the doors to every man who wanted easier access to women when they are more vulnerable.

The common enemy here is male violence. Men should be held to account for their actions, not those who have survived them.

So the writer states that male violence is a problem and that women's experiences of this have been dismissed, but does not make the logical connection to the reasons why women do not want male bodies in sex segregated spaces.
She continues the dismissal and disbelief of women's experiences, which she has pointed has been a problem.

There is a connecting thread between insulting terms like “hysterical” and the #MeToo movement’s examination of why so many women’s experiences have been disbelieved

And again, more transwomen just want to understood stuff and nothing that addresses JK's points

amp.theguardian.com/education/2020/jul/11/uks-only-trans-philosophy-professor-to-jk-rowling-harry-potter-helped-me-become-a-woman

They’re really going for it aren't they? The times, the mail & the telegraph are being openly GC abd the BBC is showing signs of reintroducing some actual balance to their coverage. the guardian clearly feels they are the only msm openly supporting trans people - thing is they still don’t understand the depth of many left leaning women’s anger on this. They still think extortions to be nice interspaced with articles about how only right wing ppl would oppose the GRA will work. They won’t and aren’t

Do we need to adjust our wording or is that just pandering and pushing us females out of our place?
twitter.com/Tieryn_/status/1281888649022509056?s=19

The Guardian seemed to be getting better for a while but they've got worse again recently. Billy Bragg's article yesterday showed how far they've sunk.

The Indie is the other paper that is completely in thrall to TRA ideology but I don't know if you'd consider them mainstream media any more.

The author said on Twitter that women's fear of transwomen in refuges for example is really just 'fear of fear' or 'fear of the other'.
Nope. No no no no no.
It's fear of the really fucking familiar. Men/male bodies are not some novel apparition that reactionary females who are resistant to change just need to get their bigoted heads round.
Women are pretty old hats at dealing with penises and men, whatever dressing you put on them. Especially the most vulnerable ones that are often the users or single sex spaces.
TW are not 'the other'. The other sex yes, but that sure as shit isn't new.

@zanahoria

Hey carrot! I read that article too. The comparison to adoptive parents had my eyebrows rising into my hairline.
I wonder if he would have had the academic opportunities and career he has had and been able to raise four children if he had been a biological woman who bore them during those times.
I know it's important to separate trans people from TRAs and that piece doesn't specifically cover the legal questions, but adoptive parents are recognised as parents whilst still leaving birth certificates and actual history and facts as they stand, so I thought it was so disingenuous to use that as a comparison.

Even if individual women leave childhood, teens and early adulthood relatively unscathed, we are affected by what happens to the girls and women surrounding us.

Rape, sex discrimination, domestic violence, coercion, pregnancy and dysmenorrhoea may have happened to other women, but it affects us all.

How we learn our cohort are treated medically and societally, are discriminated against and how and why they are killed are all object lessons in how we, as a sex class are treated.

We learn our collective lessons and try not to be treated the same.

Appeasing the domestic, medical and societal abusers is how we all end up acting, in order to prevent the same treatment.

Men cannot be women for this reason alone.

They weren't taught the lessons we were taught, weren't shown the examples we were shown and weren't taught how to tip toe on eggshells, whilst smiling, putting others first and all the while keeping groomed and presentable, just like the magazines, mothers, friends, older siblings, commentators, influencers and advertisers tell us and show us.

Society, family, friends, the educational, employment and medical systems all become our conscious or unwitting Aunt Lydias, teaching us how to take our places, how to behave as caring and accommodating women and having examples of how bad things can get being held up in order to keep us in line.

Men do not have that. They are socialised in a completely different way.

Even if they do not feel masculine, they are not taught what we are taught, how and why we are taught it, have no empathy with us and take advantage of our training as compassionate, accommodating and appeasing vessels to appropriate the fripperies, rights and appearances of womanhood, without having to go through any of the socialization, emotional or physical pain.

It's like seeing a top class ice skater in action (without seeing the years of privation, training, sacrifices and pain it took to get there), putting the costume on and declaring yourself an ice skater.

It's laughable and wrong.