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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Drag queen story time Leeds part 2

89 replies

Angryresister · 08/07/2020 18:30

We wrote to councillor Field and were informed it was to be treated as a complaint. Here is the the first response

Thank you for your recent comments sent to Cllr Field on 21 June and passed to me. This has been logged as a complaint at Stage 1 of our procedure and allocated to me for investigation and response in line with our Complaints Policy.
In summary, my understanding of your complaint is:
 Drag queen story time is inappropriate;
 There are inappropriate images associated with the performer.
In order to respond to these I would like to give some back ground to the event and to our equality
approach.
Event
Leeds Library Service have always supported diversity and equality of opportunity as these are central to the role of libraries. A programme of events is planned across the year to meet this aim and hosting the drag queen story time was part of this plan.
The organisation Drag Queen Story Hour (www.dragqueenstoryhour.co.uk/) approached the Library Service and provided information both about the story time sessions as well as their experience in delivering the programme for other library services. They have a good reputation and have partnered with several library authorities across the country, including Manchester, Guernsey, Portsmouth and Gloucestershire. They specialise in children’s storytelling; tailoring performances to the audience.
Previous events were made available and were reviewed for suitability and quality by the Library Service. Although Drag Queen performances are often associated as an adult event, as with any other artist who performs for both an adult and junior audience the content of each show is tailored accordingly. The story time is aimed at children and families, it is very different to a club performance and is in no way an adult act; as a result it was agreed to go ahead with the event.
The normal procedures for considering any event were followed. The material and the official Story Hour website had been reviewed and the experiences of other local authorities taken into account. This was a virtual event with no direct unsupervised contact with children and it had already been
www.leeds.gov.uk General enquiries: 0800 188 4000

viewed and seen as suitable. There is a safeguarding policy on the website and whilst there was no need for any further checks it was noted that the performer was DBS checked.
In terms of the organisation for the virtual event on 22 June, Drag Queen Story Hour created an event and the library service was added as a co-host. Individuals ticked to say they were attending, and no other information was available to either the creator or the co-host other than what is public information on an individual’s Facebook. It is common to co-host events in this way and it enables the recording to be shared in real time on our libraries page.
Equality perspective
As a local authority, as you know, we have a statutory duty under the Equality Act to
· Eliminate unlawful discrimination, harassment and victimisation;
· Advance equality of opportunity;
· Foster good relations
We are proud that we are a diverse and multi cultural city, and all our work will continue to be underpinned by our belief that all people should be treated with respect.
Drag is a historical art/performance form and is not specifically about either gender identity or sexual orientation. Whilst Drag Queens are not specifically covered by the Equality Act, they are rooted in LGBT+ culture and the Equality Act has provision for discrimination by association. As a council we will strive to ensure that we meet our statutory duty and to protect all people from unlawful discrimination, harassment and victimisation, and this includes in relation to drag queens.
There is, as you know, an ongoing debate about whether drag queens are misogynistic and whether they are a ‘distorted and sexualised grotesque caricature of women’. It is true that they exaggerate cultural stereotypes of women, as a specific form of entertainment, however they can also be seen as providing an ironic view that makes a statement about society as a whole and how women are depicted. In Leeds we value and recognise that everyone has a right to be who they are, and to express themselves. It is entirely right that we continue to be inclusive and to promote diversity.
Inappropriate images
On the day before the event was due to take place the council was made aware of images from a social media account linked with the performer that were considered to be inappropriate. Given when the concerns were raised, there was very limited time to investigate further and it was decided that the event should be cancelled. This was a family event focusing on picture books and aimed at 7 year olds, and therefore it was particularly important that we ensured that all safeguarding checks had taken place.
As part of my investigation I considered the content and images on the drag queen story time website. In my view they are appropriate for the audience it is aimed at. The images that were highlighted were not on the drag queen story time site but on the performer’s own social media. There is an age restriction on accessing social media which is 13 for Facebook and Instagram and 14 for Twitter, so not accessible to the target audience. As a general principle anyone who is concerned about images or content being inappropriate should raise these with the platform concerned.
I agree that the images highlighted and brought to the attention of the council are inappropriate for a children’s audience, but this is not where they are available. The council has acted wholly appropriately in assessing safeguarding and has followed normal protocol before agreeing to co
www.leeds.gov.uk General enquiries: 0800 188 4000

hosting the event. I believe it would be unreasonable to expect Library Services to consider all social media content linked to a performer, and there is no reason why this should have been done in this instance.
I am clear that our normal procedure in relation to safeguarding has been followed and there is nothing to indicate that any child was at risk in any way.
It is clear from the advertising that a drag queen is reading the story and at this stage the parent or responsible adult can make a decision as to whether they consider this event suitable for their child, in the same way as they would do for any event.
Conclusion
Having considered all of the above information I am clear that the normal procedure for engaging a performer has been followed. It is also clear that due consideration has been given to equality and safeguarding, that the event is wholly suitable for children, and is in accordance with our aims to be a welcoming and inclusive city.
You have raised concerns about engaging a drag queen for storytime, but this has been done in accordance with our ambition to be a welcoming and inclusive city. In addition the right checks and balances have been put in place, as they would have been before engaging any performer.
The images you highlighted were not on the storytime website and I believe this is where anyone with concerns about the event would have looked, before making a decision as to whether to sign up for the event. It is not appropriate for the Library Service to consider all social media before making a decision about hosting an event.
Given this is the case I consider it entirely appropriate for the event to go ahead should this be possible given the plans already in place for the year by the Library Service.
I believe that I have addressed the issues you have raised. If you wish to request a review of my decision, you can contact me directly or customer relations on the email address given above, within 28 days of this letter. However, please be aware that consideration will usually only be given to new facts or evidence, or to comments on the above facts or evidence which I have relied on as part of my investigation.
Yours sincerely,

OP posts:
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5
PumbaasCucumbas · 08/07/2020 19:23

I’m not personally a fan of the drag story thing for all the reasons the OP wrote about.

Even if I have to agree to disagree with their viewpoint and choose to avoid such reductive, misogynistic entertainment for my children, I can accept that providing safeguarding considerations were taken and met, that it’s reasonable for the event to go ahead for those that are into that sort of thing. My question would be, were such safeguarding decisions taken prior to the event or only as a result of Cllr Field’s intervention?

I am glad that this issue was raised and I think it needs to be raised again and again every time that common sense is cast aside in the pursuit of rainbow woke points and a very selective version of “inclusivity”

gardenbird48 · 08/07/2020 19:25

Whilst Drag Queens are not specifically covered by the Equality Act, they are rooted in LGBT+ culture and the Equality Act has provision for discrimination by association. As a council we will strive to ensure that we meet our statutory duty and to protect all people from unlawful discrimination, harassment and victimisation, and this includes in relation to drag queens.
so are drag queens feeling discriminated against because they can't get many booking as children's entertainers (could be the 'hole destroying' angle on their advertising) so the worthy burghers of Leeds Council are seeking to redress this????

gardenbird48 · 08/07/2020 19:29

@PumbaasCucumbas

I’m not personally a fan of the drag story thing for all the reasons the OP wrote about.

Even if I have to agree to disagree with their viewpoint and choose to avoid such reductive, misogynistic entertainment for my children, I can accept that providing safeguarding considerations were taken and met, that it’s reasonable for the event to go ahead for those that are into that sort of thing. My question would be, were such safeguarding decisions taken prior to the event or only as a result of Cllr Field’s intervention?

I am glad that this issue was raised and I think it needs to be raised again and again every time that common sense is cast aside in the pursuit of rainbow woke points and a very selective version of “inclusivity”

as they only became aware of the unsuitable content on social media the day before the event when this had been planned for ages, I'm guessing they were taken as a result of Cllr Field's action. Also they claim to have a good reputation from doing this elsewhere and it clearly wasn't picked up then.....
truthisarevolutionaryact · 08/07/2020 19:30

Agreed Kit19 - this absolutely needs taking to the limit in terms of complaints.Let these people who are so enthralled by adult drag queens reading to little children that they find any reason to ignore information that suggests that perhaps these adults are not appropriate or safe role models for little children.
These are the type of people who defended Jimmy Savile, Cyril Smith etc. They are too prevalent in local authorities and have learnt nothing from all the case reviews and previous scandals.
Let these views be exposed to public scrutiny.

HermioneWeasley · 08/07/2020 19:32

Does blackface also pose ironic questions about society as a whole?

Michelleoftheresistance · 08/07/2020 19:33

As an LGB person, I find it extremely offensive to frame showing inappropriate sexualised content to children as 'diversity' as if inappropriate and sexualised behaviour is something 'normal' among LGB people.

We spent bloody decades teaching the general public that other sexualities were no threat to others and those with them had the same standards of appropriacy, safety and behaviour as anyone else. This idiocy is busy undoing it.

Bananabixfloof · 08/07/2020 21:01

whilst there was no need for any further checks it was noted that the performer was DBS checked

I haven't needed a DBS for years and cant remember what it covers, maybe a DBS should look at more than it does if it passed this performer. Going by what I saw when this came up originally on this performers very public profile. Was definitely not suitable to be performing to children.

Twinkygirly · 08/07/2020 21:28

Sorry I haven't read all of this but has anyone brought up that they only require a basic DBS check for their performers?
All people who work with children are supposed to have enhanced DBS.

PelicanDeuce · 08/07/2020 21:29

What. The. Fuck?

We need to deconstruct that pile of shit and offer it back to them. It’s actually almost entirely incoherent and is taking us for utter mugs.

Xanthangum · 08/07/2020 21:36

Sorry I haven't read all of this but has anyone brought up that they only require a basic DBS check for their performers?
All people who work with children are supposed to have enhanced DBS.

I'm not sure that's entirely true. There was an issue a few years ago about children's authors coming into schools and needing an enhanced DBS to do so. IIRC, it was deemed unnecessary as long as the individual wasn't going to be on their own, unsupervised with children.

Which may now be a loophole these drag queen story people are exploiting?

VickyEadieofThigh · 08/07/2020 21:40

For me it's still about drag being an offensive caricature of a woman and thus inappropriate for children. This "it's part of LGBT culture pisses me right off - it's part of gay men ridiculing women, that's what it is.

Wolfgirrl · 08/07/2020 21:45

I posted on fb about this issue (my first GC post). Has anybody suffered consequences at work regarding this specific topic? I'm panicking a little. I didnt mention trans people/gay men obviously, but a reply called me homophobic and transphobic so I am worried

Xanthangum · 08/07/2020 21:50

Flowers @Wolfgirrl

ValancyRedfern · 08/07/2020 21:58

wolfgirl it's brutal out there. I think you're very unlikely to have any real world consequences. The threat being there is enough to keep most of us silent. I am very 'out' on FB and although colleagues have disagreed with me it's never been an issue in work.

SerenityNowwwww · 08/07/2020 22:03

@Angryresister

I will write back asking how many lesbians have been recruited to this crucial task. Ironic? My arse.
Ask when they are going to have some porn film actors coming in to read Tip and Mitten?
Wolfgirrl · 08/07/2020 22:04

Thank you. I know saying it can have the opposite effect, but I am not at all homophobic or transphobic in the sense that I do not 'like' trans people or have some kind of aversion to their lifestyle. It is all good with me, I just don't want womens rights to be compromised or weakened as a result.

As for drag, it is associated with fetish and adult performance. I wouldn't want a dominatrix or burlesque performer reading to kids either. Their minds are not nuanced enough to understand context etc. I thought reuben kaye looked quite frightening in his channel 4 show, a bit like pennywise the clown. If I was a kid I wouldve found it quite scary.

SerenityNowwwww · 08/07/2020 22:04

It would appear that you can use the words inclusivity and diversity to excuse absolutely anything. It’s like on HIGNFY when they say something outrageous about someone and say ‘allegedly’. It’s a get out of jail free card.

TorkTorkBam · 08/07/2020 22:07

How many L or G or B storytellers did they approach in the name of diversity before they had to resort to hiring someone who, by their own admission, is not LGB or even T?

It's awfully surprising they couldn't find any lesbian or gay people willing to read stories to children in the library. I wonder why not? I'd love to hear their explanation for choosing not to hire homosexual people to normalise diversity.

Blossom513 · 08/07/2020 22:28

Why does diversity never seem to include people with disabilities either? Diversity seems to be solely about the T+ at the moment. Doesn't sound very diverse to me.

SerenityNowwwww · 08/07/2020 22:50

I asked that if the British library when they had a similar event.

Same mealy mouthed scripted response - ‘inclusivity, diversity’ and no actual answers to my direct questions.

DancelikeEmmaGoldman · 08/07/2020 23:43

I believe it would be unreasonable to expect Library Services to consider all social media content linked to a performer, and there is no reason why this should have been done in this instance.

I once had a job, part of which involved reviewing websites for inclusion in teaching materials for primary-age children. On behalf of a state education authority. We checked links three-levels in from the original website. It was absolutely our job to consider if something we were promoting for children had fetish images involved. And children will have seen them, most kids are really good at finding stuff on the internet.

I find it really very hard to understand a local authority thinking that was OK.

crunchermuncher · 09/07/2020 01:09

I fail to see how their reference to the EA is relevant. No one is stopping drag queens from using the library or associated council services are they?

That reply is all arse about face.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/07/2020 01:37

fail to see how their reference to the EA is relevant. No one is stopping drag queens from using the library or associated council services are they?

They are referring to the "harassment and victimisation" part I think. As this person claimed in Pink News that they had been threatened with crucifixion by MNers etc Hmm

StuffThem · 09/07/2020 10:04

Thank you @Angryresister for following this up. I've put some bullet points together for what I would reply in case it's helpful.

Leeds Library Service have always supported diversity and equality of opportunity as these are central to the role of libraries. A programme of events is planned across the year to meet this aim and hosting the drag queen story time was part of this plan.

If diversity and equality of opportunity is the motivator for this booking, why was the man booked to appear in adult entertainment costume and not as himself?

it is very different to a club performance and is in no way an adult act;

Can you explain why womanface is considered an act that is suitable for families please? And what makes it different to it's near neighbour and universlly acknowledged as unacceptable, blackface?

Equality perspective
As a local authority, as you know, we have a statutory duty under the Equality Act to
· Eliminate unlawful discrimination, harassment and victimisation;
· Advance equality of opportunity;
· Foster good relations
We are proud that we are a diverse and multi cultural city, and all our work will continue to be underpinned by our belief that all people should be treated with respect.

Could you please explain to me how drag queens in general are compliant with "eliminating unlawful discrimination" towards people with the protected characteristic of "Sex" (Women)?

Could you explain please how recruiting a male who dresses as a woman for adult entertainment a storytelling exercise is meets the demands of equality and diversity better than recruiting an actual lgbt+ or BAME storyteller?

"Drag is a historical art/performance form and is not specifically about either gender identity or sexual orientation.

If that's the case then you don't also get to tick your equality boxes for those things.

Whilst Drag Queens are not specifically covered by the Equality Act, they are rooted in LGBT+ culture and the Equality Act has provision for discrimination by association.

I note that fetish and BDSM culture is also strongly associated with LGBT+ culture but that it would clearly be inappropriate for somebody dressed in BDSM or fetishwear to read stories to children.

This is because children are protected by safeguarding from being exposed to adult sexual themes or material.

Freedom from discrimination would be welcoming a skilled storyteller who also happened to be a drag queen performer to dress in appropriate attire for storytelling. Fancy dress is not a protected characteristic, but again, sex is. A man dressing as a woman is not protecting the characteristic of sex, as it is taking the place of a woman or man storyteller.

Drag queens are associated with adult entertainment and sexuality, and that is not in line with safeguarding children from exposure to adult sexuality content..

As a council we will strive to ensure that we meet our statutory duty and to protect all people from unlawful discrimination, harassment and victimisation, and this includes in relation to drag queens.

Does it include women?

There is, as you know, an ongoing debate about whether drag queens are misogynistic and whether they are a ‘distorted and sexualised grotesque caricature of women’. It is true that they exaggerate cultural stereotypes of women, as a specific form of entertainment,

Yes.

however they can also be seen as providing an ironic view that makes a statement about society as a whole and how women are depicted.

Cambridge English dictionary definition of the word ironic;

showingthat you reallymeantheoppositeof what you are saying

Can you please show me evidence that "exaggerated cultural stereotypes of women" is showing that what you really mean is the opposite of that? If you're claiming that a learning outcome of drag queen story time is the opposite of misogynistic and distorted and sexualised caricature of women - so portrayal of women in a feminist and accurate manner please show me evidence of how a drag queen storytime would ensure this learning outcome would be achieved for the children, who it is commonly understood do not necessarily understand irony, especially not when it relates to complex adult themes such as mysogyny.

At the very least please demonstrate how drag queen storytime doesn't accidentally give children the impression that casual misogyny and distorted sexualituly of women is acceptable.

In Leeds we value and recognise that everyone has a right to be who they are, and to express themselves. It is entirely right that we continue to be inclusive and to promote diversity.

I refer you back to your point that "Drag is a historical art/performance form and is not specifically about either gender identity or sexual orientation".

You presumably do enforce some restrictions on what is appropriate attire for your staff, service users and freelance staff?

The right to express oneself does not superced child safeguarding or the protected characteristic of sex (women).

There is an age restriction on accessing social media which is 13 for Facebook and Instagram and 14 for Twitter, so not accessible to the target audience.

Note to mumsnet - aren't images on Facebook, search term results when children Google, if they are public? Are these images set to public?

I agree that the images highlighted and brought to the attention of the council are inappropriate for a children’s audience, but this is not where they are available.

So can you confirm that if a member of council staff who worked with children, perhaps a teacher, had the same images available on their public social media accounts that would not be considered an issue? (If somebody went digging in sure Leeds County Council has a social media conduct policy for their staff - most councils do).

It is also clear that due consideration has been given to equality and safeguarding, that the event is wholly suitable for children, and is in accordance with our aims to be a welcoming and inclusive city

Can you please elaborate on how engaging drag queens meet the aim of equality for women and being a welcoming and inclusive city, for women?^

Michelleoftheresistance · 09/07/2020 11:48

Having watched MasterChef last night, there's an erroneous belief about at the moment that inappropriate, poor behaviour usually not tolerated is somehow sweet and modern and LGBT positive when being done by a male in feminised clothing and makeup.

It isn't. It's just inappropriate, poor behaviour whoever is doing it, and it usually involves expecting others to participate in indulging and enabling that male in their personal games.

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