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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

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Original poster

Please help me process my reaction to what my teenage daughter is wearing.

64 replies

AlexaShutUp · 05/07/2020 14:40

I have a 15yo dd. We generally have a great relationship - we talk a lot, and usually see eye to eye. She is very sensible and has a lovely bunch of friends. And I believe that I have raised her to be a proud feminist.

She has gone out to meet with some friends in a park today. Not sure if it makes any difference, but they all happen to be female. She has been brilliant through lockdown, and has only recently started to socialise again, so she was looking forward to it.

She and her friends were planning to take a picnic to a field near our house. I came upstairs while she was getting ready, and found myself shocked by what she was wearing. A short (mid-thigh) white skirt and a strappy white top. It wasn't indecent in any way, but just exposed a lot more flesh than she would usually. Mainly just shoulders/arms and legs. No cleavage, no midriff showing.

I'm not sure exactly what I said, but I think I asked her something like "is that what you're wearing?", probably with some judgement in my tone. I then said that the skirt was nice but quite short. She commented that it was ethically sourced and made from recycled material!

She then asked me what was wrong with what she was wearing. I couldn't really articulate a response, but I also found myself wondering what her dad would think about her going out like that. She then said did I want her to change her top. I said no, but she did anyway, and put on a t-shirt with sleeves. She said that she had considered this top originally but decided on the strappy one because it's hot today and she thought it went better with the skirt. In one way, I felt better when she had the t-shirt on, as she was more covered up, but on the other hand, I hated myself for even thinking about it. Why should I actually care if her shoulders are exposed ffs? And actually, she was right that the strappy top actually looked a bit better with the skirt.

I told her that it wasn't my place to tell her what to wear, and that she should wear whatever she liked. She then got a bit tearful and said that she didn't want to be judged. We talked about it some more, and then she said that as a feminist, she felt that she should be allowed to wear what she felt good in. I agreed, and she went back to wearing the strappy top. She did put a jacket on top, but I think that was just for my benefit, and I'm sure it probably came off a few meters down the road.

I gave her a hug before she went out and told her that she looked lovely (she actually did) and that my reaction was my problem, not hers. She seemed ok at this point, and has hopefully long since forgotten about it all.

However, I am bothered by my reaction and need help processing it. Objectively speaking, there really wasn't anything wrong with what she was wearing, so why did I have such a visceral reaction when I saw what she was wearing?

OP posts:

viques · 05/07/2020 15:46

winesalot congratulations, you have won the valued Mumsnet Excellent Parent of the Day award. please drink it responsibly, (sorry, I know you will, but other people might not so that is a subtle reminder to them to be better people)

RadandMad · 05/07/2020 15:52

I think you were being protective. As a mum I would worry about any potential predators out there, even though as a young girl I didn't give safety considerations a thought. Also, I always think it's shame that beautiful young girls feel they have to try so hard to attract male attention, when really they have it all - at least in the looks department. Plus I fret about them getting cold! mum face

Winesalot · 05/07/2020 15:53

viques

I’ll take that gin. My name is apt.

Oh no! Does that negate my award???

Someone1987 · 05/07/2020 15:53

This makes me so glad I have a son (though I know there are different issues with boys of course) but I would find it incredibly difficult to see my daughter dressed up like I did and experience some of the men I did.

KaptainKaveman · 05/07/2020 15:53

she wants to wear stuff like that - and you have to let her.

GetOffTheTableMabel · 05/07/2020 15:54

The general rule in our house has always been that (unless your going to the beach or maybe a party) you can only poke out of one end of your outfit at a time.
E.G. Short skirts with a higher neckline; cleavage or strappy tops with trousers. They’ve never pushed against it and it’s stopped me and DH from having to negotiate outfits with them at the door.

Tbf, I do stick to the guideline myself.

KaptainKaveman · 05/07/2020 15:54

If I had a figure like my teen dds I'd wear what they wear too. But I don't . Not any more!

Original poster

AlexaShutUp · 05/07/2020 15:55

The general rule in our house has always been that (unless your going to the beach or maybe a party) you can only poke out of one end of your outfit at a time.

I like that rule!

OP posts:

Lightswitches · 05/07/2020 15:58

I wore a revealing(ish) top at the same kind of age but had no clue people would think of it in terms except how trendy I was.

Lightswitches · 05/07/2020 16:00

Yes Getoffthetable Legs or chest, never both! Good advice.

I pushed the boundaries of whichever one I'd chosen though

Odense · 05/07/2020 16:01

@Winesalot

I had a little smile when I read this OP. Because in my house, as we are Australians, it is all about being sun smart. So no, going to the park with a strappy shirt is not acceptable sun protection even on a cloudy summers day in London. Even with sunscreen.

Our daughter met a friend a few weeks ago and I checked her with a hat, sunscreen and a shirt with shoulders at least.

Her friend wore the strappy shirt, short shorts and no hat. My daughter sat in full shade and the friend on the edge. The friend complained later that she was terribly sun burnt which must have been really painful.

Haha

I’ve lived in Australia, and this was my exact thought.

My daughter is preteen, and I asked her to put a thin cotton shirt on over her strappy top because I was worried about sun exposure!

(And then proceeded to get burnt myself because I forgot my suncream. Sigh)

jewel1968 · 05/07/2020 16:09

I think there is something about women/girls somehow being responsible for the bad behaviour of inappropriate males. What they wear is seen to be some sort of trigger for their behaviour. I guess the question is how rational is that. Where is the evidence? And do we articulate this to our daughters -don't wear that cos blokes might misbehave.

Original poster

AlexaShutUp · 05/07/2020 16:10

I wore a revealing(ish) top at the same kind of age but had no clue people would think of it in terms except how trendy I was.

Yeah, don't think it had even crossed dd's mind as to whether the top was too revealing. And tbf, it didn't actually reveal much at all, just neck and shoulders!

It's weird, because I don't think I'd have had a problem with the top if she had worn it with jeans, and I wouldn't have been too fussed about the skirt with a different top, so it must have been the thing about exposing flesh at both ends that other posters have mentioned. Yet that feels illogical to me, because if the clothes are alright separately, why shouldn't they be worn together? Is there a certain percentage of flesh that it's ok to expose at any one time?!

I'm overthinking it now, I know.

And yes, she was over dressed for a flipping picnic, but no doubt the insta pictures later will be to her satisfaction.

OP posts:

Original poster

AlexaShutUp · 05/07/2020 16:14

jewel, I think it is definitely connected to that in some way, subconsciously. Perhaps on one level, I have internalised the view that girls exposing flesh "triggers" unwanted male attention. However, my rational mind doesn't accept that, and doesn't accept that women or girls are in any way responsible for predatory male behaviours. I guess that is why I'm annoyed at my reaction.

OP posts:

user1471510720 · 05/07/2020 16:16

Raised her to be a proud Feminist😂😂 dear god. Just what the world needs

JoysOfString · 05/07/2020 16:17

I worry about this in relation to school skirts - round here most teenage girls wear them so short that they literally stop right at the top of the legs, worn with black tights that can be thick or sometimes quite thin,

I am a feminist, I think people should wear what they like and girls are not responsible for boys' responses. But OTOH, the whole point of that look is clearly to appear sexually attractive and risque for the benefit of boys (whether or not the girl consciously intends that - obviously one factor in them doing it is because it's the done thing and their mates do it).

I don't like the fact that that's the look, it's what the girls do and it's accepted, but of course it's not what the boys do. They don't feel any pressure to show off their legs and essentially go out in an outfit that resembles underwear.

But again OTOH it's the girl's choice and of course it's pretty natural to want to get male attention at that age.

Aaaaarrgggh. If my DD goes in for this I still don't know if I'll be saying anything or not.

AmICrazyorWhat2 · 05/07/2020 16:17

My DD (15) met a couple of friends for a walk yesterday evening and she wore shorts and a strappy top. I didn't like the top as she's big-busted and it definitely emphasized it - she did have a sweatshirt with her but it was a hot evening so she tied it around her middle.

I said that the top was revealing and left it at that. I always wanted to wear revealing clothes at 15 but I grew out of it by 16/17 and went for the grunge look!

I feel confident that my DD will grow out of it too - we talk about "unwanted attention" and she's experienced it (and thought it gross when middle-aged men have wolf-whistled!) I point things out to her and talk about wearing clothes that flatter you, rather than always following the latest trend.

Being a teenager is hard!

twoHopes · 05/07/2020 16:22

What they wear is seen to be some sort of trigger for their behaviour. I guess the question is how rational is that. Where is the evidence? And do we articulate this to our daughters -don't wear that cos blokes might misbehave.

I dress really angrodynous/modestly these days but last year, for the first time in ages, I wore quite a tight, short dress. My god, the cat calling was unbelievable. I'd completely forgotten what it was like.

I don't think it's a good idea to articulate that to teenage girls though. Firstly, I remember being cat called in my school uniform so it's not the case that revealing clothes = bad male behaviour. And secondly, I don't think it's right to put the burden of that on young girls going through puberty. It's a difficult enough time as it is, without worrying about how you're perceived by grown men.

1forAll74 · 05/07/2020 16:22

I would feel sorry for you daughter, if she has to have this kind of drama and discussion about her clothes. It's sounds fine what she chose.

mencken · 05/07/2020 16:25

ridiculous outfit to sit in a field in June - grass stains all over the skirt and sunburn on all the exposed skin.

but assuming you aren't in a country where women must cover up or get stoned, no other problem apart from looking just a bit silly.

Original poster

AlexaShutUp · 05/07/2020 16:27

1forAll, I agree, it was an unnecessary amount of discussion and drama, which is why I apologised to her earlier and am reflecting on it now. In my defence, this is the only time it has happened, and I don't make a habit of it.

OP posts:

Original poster

AlexaShutUp · 05/07/2020 16:31

mencken, she took a blanket to sit on, so hopefully avoided the grass stains, and she won't get sunburnt a)because she doesn't burn easily at all and b)because one of her friends burns extremely easily and they will have to stay out of the sun for her. However, I do agree that it wasn't the right outfit for sitting in a field!!

OP posts:

AmICrazyorWhat2 · 05/07/2020 16:33

but assuming you aren't in a country where women must cover up or get stoned, no other problem apart from looking just a bit silly.

That's my approach - if she wants to look a bit silly, it's up to her. She'll figure out her own style and I don't think it's going to be the same at 20 as it is right now!

Original poster

AlexaShutUp · 05/07/2020 16:37

Thank you all for your comments on this thread. They have helped me to make a bit more sense of my reaction.

OP posts:

IrmaFayLear · 05/07/2020 16:41

You must all have been excellent teenagers, because I certainly remember a few spats with my dm over my outfits in the 80s. The time I pranced out wearing my dad’s string vest was a particular low for parental relations!

As it happens, I think teen girls are wearing “more” clothes than in recent years. The fad for short shorts exposing bum cheeks has passed, and tops with higher necklines are in.

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