Caitlin Moran - a bit more interesting than usual today

[ErrolTheDragon]

Usually her Saturday times columns are quite fluffy, but ... well, I guess judging by what she's written the real Caitlin is emerging.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/caitlin-moran-me-drugs-and-the-perimenopause-mpzn2cdh2?shareToken=733c91e33db6941fbd7927e96de18904

It's socialisation + temperament + personality + biology, imo.

I mean, my reality - that my attitudes and energies have changed in hormonally mediated patterns - may not be true for all women. But it's been true for me.

Quite honestly, more information about this connection would have helped me be less of a freaking agreeable doormat at times. Is this me or is this oxytocin? would have been a helpful lens to have.

No hormonal contraception here; maybe that made the hormonal shifts more noticeable.

'Never say something once if you can say it in 5 slightly different oh-so-clever ways. Look at me. Have I mentioned drugs enough?'

Very true

I don't think it's the menopause that causes the anger, it's due to being female for a long time.

I agree with this.

I"m late 40s, peri menopausal (I presume) and have not been on hormonal contraception except for a year or 2 at university. I don't feel my anger levels are hormone mediated, they are life/experience mediated.

I do notice a cyclical pattern to my emotions and I do get a bit insecure/emotional/highly strung for a few days before and at the start of my period, but it is minimal compared to my feeling on being an adult woman and 30 years of work, relationships, pregnancy, childbirth, male entitlement and now people trying to negate that experience of biological womanhood.

I think the objection to the idea that women are influenced by their hormones (not “at the mercy of”) is linked to the idea that men are not - rational level headed men vs irrational moody women.

I think we can accept that hormones have an impact on both sexes’ moods and behaviour without supporting sexist ideas.

Holy shit this is amazing and so true!

I don’t actually think there’s anything wrong with “Lite feminism “ if that’s how you want to brand her writing. She’s a columnist in a conservative ( small C) broadsheet - she has a great deal of reach. Anything too strident would just turn a lot of her audience off. I see it more as “ level entry” feminism perhaps, hopefully leading some readers to explore themes further but otherwise not frightening the conservative horses.

I'm another one who's been angry all the time (and told it's offputting and the reason I haven't done as well as I could have).

Does abydos have another share token? The Ops is timing out.

I feel quite lost on this thread. I thought feminists were generally in agreement that being 'nice' and enjoying home making weren't a result of female biology. It's not menopause that makes us stop being 'nice' (I'm nowhere near it myself) it's realising we don't give a fuck any more.

Me too. Several things are making me angry at the moment. They are wholly logical things, like realising how much of a lie I was sold when I was told when young that things were almost equal now and would continue to get better. And now not only have things not got better, but men are demanding women’s rights and other men (and some truly stupid women) are rushing to comply.

But I’m pretty sure my earlier lack of rage was unrelated to hormones. I believe it’s because I was too busy being shafted to see it. That and it’s not me that’s changed, seeing things I’d missed before. It’s because the world is currently properly going to shit.

It’s the burden of family life, which mostly falls on women, that did that to me. So no, I’m not going to accept that my woman hormones made me compliant and stupid. She can fuck right off with that.

I used to love her, and would have loved this article (so brave to say it, yay women!) were it not for her complete silence on the biggest issue facing women this generation.
I actually wouldn't care if she came over full Jameela, that is a view (if IMO a stupid one ) but saying nothing as if nothing is going on is just spineless and cowardly.

“ The full Jameela”

Hatmancock, that was my favourite paragraph as well

Aaaargh! Nobody kept count?!

Everyone's hormonal balance is slightly different, so we won't all relate to it.

I do though. Every bloody word.

I spent my middle years working for my community, running playgroups and campaigning for better facilities.
I hit peri and realised I was spending a lot of time and energy on things that benefitted everyone else. That actually a lot of the 'everyone else' were selfish time wasters who didn't deserve any of my time and effort.
I've spent the last six years trying to politely disentangle myself from it all.

When you have small children, the wider community is important because it takes a village to raise a child. As I aged out I lost interest in the wider community and my concerns became more home based and personal.

Later I realised it was all coinciding with hormonal shifts.

@PenguindreamsofDraco

I used to love her, and would have loved this article (so brave to say it, yay women!) were it not for her complete silence on the biggest issue facing women this generation. I actually wouldn't care if she came over full Jameela, that is a view (if IMO a stupid one ) but saying nothing as if nothing is going on is just spineless and cowardly.

Maybe she can be more effective flying just below the radar, posting truly woman centred stuff without attracting the ire of people trying to shut her down.

the idea that men are not - rational level headed men

I love how humans are so good at holding two contradictory views at the same time.

There's the view that men are rational and not affected by hormones like women are.

And there is the view that men are driven by their testosterone to complete with each other, in business, sexually etc.

Obviously the reality is complex.

@Pikachubaby

Hatmancock, that was my favourite paragraph as well

Aaaargh! Nobody kept count?!

Yes that was the kicker wasn't it - nobody kept count

I do wonder how much of it is hormones and how much of it is just realising that you've been walked over. A friend of mine has transformed from lovely, sweet "be kind" lib fem into an angry radfem in the space of a year and a half. All of this down to a difficult birth followed by sleepless nights with limited help from her useless partner, realising she's being held back in her career and then four months of lockdown WFH with an 18 month old.

Yes - I wasn't relating at first so much as realising how many drugs I hadn't taken, but then she said this and I was on board:
"No one was keeping count. You can’t cash in any aspect of those thousands of hours in exchange for social status, increased job prospects, shares or early retirement – the things the men in your peer group are starting to enjoy."

OTOH, I've also been getting the suspicion lately that 'is it the menopause' is the midlife annoying equivalent to 'are you on your period'.

@HatMancock

I've just turned 45 and read her column in the bath today, it was brilliant, summed everything up for me as a SAHM. This is my favourite paragraph from the article.

Beyond other PPs, it's not just that no one kept count, it's that others feel so entitled to that work that they didn't notice it or the effort it involved - or only to the extent that it engendered a feeling of vague contempt in some cases.

It's highlighted at present by the impact of COVID19 on too many home lives where women have found themselves almost entirely responsible for the household, childcare, and education while WFH despite there being other adults in the house.

@PenguindreamsofDraco, I don’t think she’s been silent. I believe she’s said that TW are better women than women because they’ve had to earn it.

At best she’s been silent, and at worst she’s capitulated. Her entire contribution to the JKR debate was to retweet David Baddiel.

She’s a coward and she won’t get another penny from me until she uses her voice and platform to stand up for women.

'Beyond other PPs, it's not just that no one kept count, it's that others feel so entitled to that work that they didn't notice it or the effort it involved -'

I honestly dont think 'women's work' (childcare, housework, life admin) is even seen as 'work'by many men, its just what women are for'. I dont think they see it as having any value, or requiring much effort, just so long as its kept far away from them of course. In that respect at least, we have made zero progress at all

Okay, I've managed to read it. She makes to many generalisations based on her experience. I wouldn't like to guess how much hormones influence each individuals emotions and behaviours. We're all so different in that respect. If Caitlyn is only just feeling the influence of fluctuating hormones, that's very different to my experiences.

I had awful PMS after having children and miscarriages which caused me to be depressed. And in later years an awareness of where I was in my menstrual cycle and how that had an effect on my work - whether I could find the right words during a meeting or felt more foggy or felt on fire.

I don't feel like angry is a consequence of those hormones. Anger is an end product of many other feelings, irritation, frustration, tiredness, boredom, envy, stress, pain, anxiety, tension, chaos, isolation- not having ones needs met, not living authentically. All of those things are more prevalent in a womans life when she has children, or lives in poverty, lives without a support network. The nuclear family, or living alone is not really how human beings are supposed to live. If Its been living in a commune with the support of extended family and friends, in a more equal society which prioritises wellbeing and collaboration over profits and competition, when I had small children, I'd have been a lot less angry, I'm sure. Nowt to do with my hormones!!

At the same time, I am aware of their fluctuations, and their presence is not benign, and we have more to contend with than males in that respect. Yet, in spite of that, we manage not to go around killing and fighting people. If female hormones =kindness, let's give them to all!

My point is, perhaps Caitlyn's life was very different from most people's. Big, loving, supportive family. No dull, restrictive 9-5 job. Perhaps she was able to choose when to do her best work and reschedule meetings of she felt a bit foggy - without even being conscious of it.

Completely agree. The ‘feeling of vague contempt’ grew in my xh to the point he’d roll his eyes whenever I spoke (I was doing everything as he wouldn’t do it, and apparently that’s unattractive) and there’s no coming back to love/respect from there

i spent a brief and unhappy 10 minutes on linked in recently, coming to the realisation that many of the men i trained with now have job titles that include the word 'director'. i do not. it made me feel left behind and angry.

but when i had kids and went part time i knew it would screw my career (although not to what extent). I didn't have the headspace to be the parent i wanted to be and work the way that gets you 'director' type jobs.

which is to say, maybe it was my hormones to some extent that made me made me prioritise other things over my career, but i don't think it's hormones or lack thereof that are making me angry now.

there's plenty for women to be angry about without putting it down to hormones