I am so, so tired

[terrifiedlesbian]

Just as the title really. I'm so tired of being told that I'm a bigot for not wanting to sleep with trans women, that being a lesbian at all is bigotry, that using the term lesbian instead of queer or pan is bigotry. Even my fucking therapist was shocked when I said I wouldn't want to sleep with ANYONE with a penis, no matter how they 'identify'. EVEN MY GIRLFRIEND DISAGREES WITH ME. I'm absolutely exhausted, and have been called a TERF so many times now that even opening facebook or reddit or basically any article about sexuality or pride or anything remotely related, give me an instant stomach ache. I'm so fucking tired.

decaf I don't know for sure but I'd expect -

a) no, because double speak
b) they don't exist, because transmen know men are dangerous, and also haven't been raised to think they can do whatever they like and everyone should do their bidding (yey patriarchy)
c) yes, I think so

I can't quite get over the cognitive dissonance of the importance of consent, yet calling someone a bigot for exercising that consent, i.e by refusing.
Sexual preferences are highly discriminatory, I know I will only consider a fairly narrow tranche of men as potential partners. That tranche is most certainly age discriminatory, specific in terms of religion (has to be a similar outlook to my own) and I would select further on education/income/if they had children or not. Appearance/attraction would be the make or break.
I'm not expected to just accept someone because they have decided that they want me. Can't see how that doesn't apply to everyone.

Gosh sorry OP. It is exhausting. I'd find it hard to be in a relationship with anybody who identified themselves as queer tbh, anybody at all. It just flags, to me, someone who doesn't have a backbone and wants to be with the cool group at school. They usually weren't queer when being queer wasn't cool...

But we do exist, those of us who think lesbians never, ever have penises. Ever.

And I agree that the safest way to exist as a lesbian (and maybe other sexualities later) is to identify as pan and then simply not fancy that one particular trans woman. Cos you can't be pan and a terf it would seem. But that's just squirt life lie option. Which is ridiculous.

I've already made clear to my therapist that I couldn't give a whiny shite how people present themselves, but women are not men, and vice versa. No idea if she's in agreement, but she doesn't have to agree or disagree..unless she's looking to do a spot of conversion therapy.

Sorry you're tired. Take some time. You won't stop being right about this if you take a break for a bit. We'll all be here and you can take over when some of us need a break.

This is all such madness. I have kept hoping that these psychos are just weirdos on twitter that never go out, so it's really depressing to find that people do in fact want to dictate other people's preferences and feelings. It's such utter bullshit it makes me want to go live in some backwater where people just deem what you think and who you have sex with to be your personal choice.

would a trans 'lesbian' be called discriminatory for not wanting to sleep with another trans 'lesbian' with a penis?

If you read around, no. TW who identify as lesbians get a free pass in being able to select only biological females for their dating pool (somehow they can tell the difference although the ideology insists it isn't possible) as it is too 'triggering' for them otherwise.

Riley Dennis on YouTube, and the athlete Rachel McKinnon will be glad to explain to biologically female homosexuals however the need for them to 'learn to cope with' sex with biological males as a social duty. Enjoying sex apparently isn't for female people; their main job is to provide a body for use by their betters. Dennis will gladly permit you a short time to overcome your trauma if you've experienced sexual abuse, but requires that you work hard to get over it ASAP and re present yourself for service.

By which you see the very very misogynist maleness of it all, and the near psychopathy and dehumanising involved for males who have this appalling, distorted view of sex and females. Women's Aid and the relationships board here exist to help females run a fucking mile from any potential partner of any sex who behaves in this way.

Another homosexual female here OP and I hear you. I'm old enough to not care and I know no lesbian of my age group that doesn't laugh out loud at this crap.

I hear you OP. I'm exhausted and I have a DP who agrees with me. It's awful

And I'll add here: whatever sex, sexuality and identity you name yourself as, if you're enjoying sleeping with or in love with someone, again regardless of sex, sexuality or identity and you're happy together, that is wonderful, I'm delighted for you both.

If, whatever sex, sexuality and identity you name yourself as, you are badgering someone for sex who you know is unwilling, trying to guilt them into sex, or implying that their body and sexuality is something you should enforce political control over..... you are an appallingly behaved person and not someone I want anything to do with.

So true Michelleoftheresistance Older lesbians in the main are not easily gaslighted into this nonsense.
There's no easy answer OP - except to say that there are tens / hundreds of thousands of women out there who reject this ideology and centre women and other lesbians in their sexuality. You just have to find us all.

OP you must be so tired of it all. It does seem like this ideology has spread like wildfire amongst lesbians, I suppose because the majority of transmen are in that community. The other day I saw a quote from a prominent woman in the "queer" community (whose name escapes me) talking about her choice to be in a "same gender" relationship. And I just thought, well homosexuality is officially over (at least for women! I very much doubt it's over for men!) We've arrived at peak insanity.

I suppose one answer is to use all the silly language right back. Warmly appreciate someone being homogenderal, repeat that you're homosexual, and if they try being morally superior about their homogenderality and wish to evangelise and convert you, you can demand to know why they are kink shaming you.

Homophobia and males (sadly enabled by some females) who believe that females have no right to 'gatekeep their vaginas': a prettying up term for the good old pre recorded history belief that female bodies belong to males for the use of males, and females have no business refusing males sex.

I'm so sorry, OP. As others have noted, this is about hypocrisy, and using vaguer labels to seem 'inclusive' even though in practice 'lesbian' might be more accurate.

But sexuality isn't inclusive. It is 'discriminatory', and that's OK. 'I don't want to sleep with you' is not the same as 'I will not hire you for a job you are qualified for'. Only people who grew up feeling entitled to sex with women would pull this shit.

As others have said - gaslighting.

OP.

I do wonder how many people are really on board with this and how many are just afraid not to be.

Get a new therapist.

My 65+ year old male therapist has been working with me on systemic cycles of abuse for several years now (due to my shit show upbringing).

I spent our last session coming out as a GC feminist. His response? "Well this sounds exactly like patriarchy in action".

Honestly there is not some big woke conspiracy amongst therapists you just got a shit one.

I'm absolutely exhausted, and have been called a TERF so many times now that even opening facebook or reddit or basically any article about sexuality or pride or anything remotely related, give me an instant stomach ache. I'm so fucking tired

Me too, OP - and I'm a straight older woman. I wonder if I'm just getting old & staid - I was a baby feminist in the late 1970s, and what passes for "woke" or "progressive" feminism seems so regressive to me. But I worry that I'm just increasingly averse to change.

Except then I read about experience like yours, and I think, No what is happening now is wrong.

Sorry - meant to add - I'm so sorry @terrifiedlesbian for the treatment of you by people who should know better. So sorry. Chin up, love, though - there are women here who understand.

I am so sorry you are caught up in this latest attack on Lesbians in the war on women.

It is amazing when you consider how many thousands of years men have tried and failed to abuse women into submission.

OP.

Gaslighting grinds you down. It is indeed mentally exhausting.

Sorry OP I agree lesbians really are bearing the brunt of this.

Whenever I’ve tried to bring this up with people, they get that a man who identifies as a woman is not a lesbian BUT a transwoman is a lesbian because they’re a woman and it’s ok - because LGBTIQ.

Poor you OP, I really feel for you. My mum is gay and came out in the 1960s. We like to think things are better now for lesbians, but I think they're worse.

You're not alone though, there is tremendous support on Mumsnet. More and more people are being 'peak transed' and I firmly believe that all this nonsense will shortly be shown for the misogyny that it is.

It's fucking lonely

I hear you, OP. The constant gaslighting by supposed 'allies' is utterly demoralising.

I've more or less given up dating altogether - it's hard enough to find a biologically female lesbian on dating sites these days anyway, and even then, the chances are they're not going to be a like mind (and finding out their views on feminism can often be a mission in itself).

And then, of course, although I like to think I can tell from the photos, there's always the occasional biologically male 'lesbian' who slips through the net. Obviously, they don't feel the need to say anything beforehand, because 'only a bigot would care'. I've found myself on dates with an arrogant, patronising classist prick, a male violence apologist and a narcissistic lady gaga wannabe. One had the courtesy to 'inform' me that they were trans 45 minutes into the date when it came up in conversation...like I didn't bloody know by then!

On top of wasting both parties' time, what really stung was the assumption that my having sex with someone with a penis was such a minor issue to them that it didn't even warrant discussion before the date. I guess their argument is that if I turn out to be a bigot, I deserve to waste my evening and feel intimidated and pressured.

Is there anything more dudely than demanding sex for self-validation?

And then these jokers try to pretend that they really are really real women. /endless laughter/

They just don’t get it, do they?

If MtF lesbians with intact male genitalia really are discriminating against each other as potential sexual partners, aren't they themselves coming under the technical definitions of transphobe, bigot and even TERF?

My brain is overheating now.